Design Best Solution lighting a cyc

[alwaysfocused89]

Problem: I have 3.5 feet of space for a cyc/scrim. That space also needs to be shared with scenery, so will probably end up more like 1.5 feet for soft goods and lights.
Goal: Effectively and evenly light a 25 ft wide and 20 ft tall cyc. if possible be able to go to have a black backdrop at times
Equipment and materials available: Cloth cyc, white scrim, blue filled scrim, black scrim, blackout drop, 8 4-cell selador LED units, other 3cell cycs and some MR16 strips.
Questions: What is the best combination of the soft goods in this case? I never used a light colored scrim before. Do i need to use a bounce because of how narrow this will be? Do I need a blackout drop behind a filled scrim? Will the white scrim make the hot spots diffused enough to not need a bounce? Thanks!

 

[MarshallPope]

One thing you forgot to mention - What does your rigging situation look like? Do you have a number of linesets you can use, will you have to rig points, or what?

 

[alwaysfocused89]

One thing you forgot to mention - What does your rigging situation look like? Do you have a number of linesets you can use, will you have to rig points, or what?

I got 3 motorized linesets, spaced 1ft apart starting 1 ft away from the back wall. Dead hanging another pipe from the I beams that the wenches are on is a possibility, but not the easiest thing to do.

 

[derekleffew]

... if possible be able to go to have a black backdrop at times ...

The only way to achieve this is to have the black scrim as your DS-most piece, and even then you may need a BOC just upstage of it, depending on the amount of ambient light hitting the scrim.

...Equipment and materials available: Cloth cyc, white scrim, blue filled scrim, black scrim, blackout drop, 8 4-cell selador LED units, other 3cell cycs and some MR16 strips. ...

How many and what length are "some MR16 strips"? 25' worth? What model of Selador units? Do they accept various lenses, and do you have any available? Perhaps this document might help in the use of the Seladors: http://www.etcconnect.com/docs/docs_downloads/AN115B_Selador_Cyc_App_Note_revB.pdf . With both LED and MR16 strips, better effects are often achieved by placing the fixtures closer to, rather than farther away from the backdrop, and also trimming the mounting pipe higher than, sometimes by a significant amount, the top of the drop to be lighted. This allows the light to "graze" down the drop, rather than directly light it.

An example from the floor rather than from above, but hopefully you'll get the idea...
The CK ColorBlaze72s are on the arena floor, conveniently masked by the 4' high stage. The units are only 6" DS of the cyc, and are pointing as straight up as we could get them. No diffusion lenses were used. (They're a pain in the neck on the ColorBlaze units.)

Nice even illumination, with no evidence of scalloping.




For general purposes, I've never found white or blue scrims all that useful. I once did a show where I had a set of fixtures (T-3 cyc light) front-lighting a cyc, and DS of that another set of units (R40 strips) front-lighting a white scrim, and the effect was nice, but took up about 10' and was really more trouble than it was worth.

EDIT: No, you don't need a blackout cloth behind a filled scrim (Leno). What color is the "cloth cyc"? Natural (unbleached) muslin or white? With either, you can achieve a wider range of colors, but a sky blue (robin's egg) surface is preferred when trying to represent sky (duh!). So I'd probably hang both the cloth cyc and the blue filled-scrim on the same US-most pipe, and then westcoast the DS one when I wanted the US one. Make sense?

 

[alwaysfocused89]

The only way to achieve this is to have the black scrim as your DS-most piece, and even then you may need a BOC just upstage of it, depending on the amount of ambient light hitting the scrim.

How many and what length are "some MR16 strips"? 25' worth? What model of Selador units? Do they accept various lenses, and do you have any available? Perhaps this document might help in the use of the Seladors: http://www.etcconnect.com/docs/docs_downloads/AN115B_Selador_Cyc_App_Note_revB.pdf . With both LED and MR16 strips, better effects are often achieved by placing the fixtures closer to, rather than farther away from the backdrop, and also trimming the mounting pipe higher than, sometimes by a significant amount, the top of the drop to be lighted. This allows the light to "graze" down the drop, rather than directly light it.

An example from the floor rather than the top, but hopefully you'll get the idea.

The CK ColorBlaze72s are on the arena floor, conveniently masked by the 4' high stage. The units are only 6" DS of the cyc, and are pointing as straight up as we could get them. No diffusion lenses were used. (They're a pain in the neck on the ColorBlaze units.)
View attachment 6138
Nice even illumination, with no evidence of scalloping.
View attachment 6139



For general purposes, I've never found white or blue scrims all that useful. I once did a show where I had a set of fixtures (T-3 cyc light) front-lighting a cyc, and DS of that another set of units (R40 strips) front-lighting a white scrim, and the effect was nice, but took up about 10' and was really more trouble than it was worth.

EDIT: No, you don't need a blackout cloth behind a filled scrim (Leno). What color is the "cloth cyc"? Natural (unbleached) muslin or white? With either, you can achieve a wider range of colors, but a sky blue (robin's egg) surface is preferred when trying to represent sky (duh!). So I'd probably hang both the cloth cyc and the blue filled-scrim on the same US-most pipe, and then westcoast the DS one when I wanted the US one. Make sense?

The Seladors I got are Vivid 42s, The MR16 strips are 6ft long, and i think i have 6 of those but they are extremely unreliable. The two-cell cycs are similar is size to T3s. I am hesitant to use any lamped units since this is such crammed space because of the fire hazard and the heat. The seladors got extra lenses in them to stretch them wider in both directions. THANK YOU for the document about their use, i havent seen that one before.

The theatre architecture will not allow trimming the lights higher than the batten the soft goods will be on. The theatre was built without consulting anyone who would actually ever use it...oy. basically the most out position that the linesets will go to is about 23 feet, we got a false proscenium 3.5 feet DS of the back wall with an opening of about 20 feet tall. the rest is the thrust.



Thankfully i think there will be a groundrow scenic piece that could cover the sources on the floor, but i do not have the luxury of a raised deck either...

the cloth cyc is straight unbleached muslin. The plastic cyc we got in the other theatre and is unfortunately too wide for this thrust stage space.

My TD is telling me to just use the blue scrim as a cyc, i am wondering if there will be any moray effect because of the nature of the multiple sources of the seladors and their light going through the scrim and hitting either the cyc right behind it like you are suggesting or just the black wall.

 

[derekleffew]

Moire effect comes from looking through two scrims, not when the US one is used as a cyc. Now that I see your setup, I'd use just the blue filled-scrim or the natural muslin cyc, and skip a DS scrim altogether. The primary purpose of a black scrim DS of a cyc is to absorb unwanted reflections to keep them from contaminating the sky. But in your case, its use would kill any/all US entrances/exits. I'd hang the Seladors on the pipe just DS of the cyc. Use the MR16s as a ground row (where they'll be on the deck and easy to service), probably with R100/R104+color or the cyc diffusions/cyc silks. Is there a border or valance for vertical masking, or do you depend on the height of the proscenium; which is how high, BTW?

 

[alwaysfocused89]

Moire effect comes from looking through two scrims, not when the US one is used as a cyc. Now that I see your setup, I'd use just the blue filled-scrim or the natural muslin cyc, and skip a DS scrim altogether. The primary purpose of a black scrim DS of a cyc is to absorb unwanted reflections to keep them from contaminating the sky. But in your case, its use would kill any/all US entrances/exits. I'd hang the Seladors on the pipe just DS of the cyc. Use the MR16s as a ground row (where they'll be on the deck and easy to service), probably with R100/R104+color or the cyc diffusions/cyc silks. Is there a border or valance for vertical masking, or do you depend on the height of the proscenium; which is how high, BTW?

sometimes we hang a teaser on the 4th lineset away from the wall, but this time a piece of scenery will be on it. proscenium is about 19.5 ft high.

side section

front elevation

I think i should have the DS black scrim, as it just hit me that they are talking about some black light scenes and in a space this small (20x20ft stage) anything that big and white would probably glow the brightest...