Vintage Lighting Chandelier Ointments

ship

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Mar 29, 2003
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Illinois
Been working on the first of seven chandeliers hanging over the stage house, now the first of 21 given the ball room was added with a different fixture, but no doubt similar requirements. Missing one of them, but seemingly easy enough to fabricate. Going RGBWW Neon and Marquee system lamps from TMB - so far... (Very expensive!!!, but the only RGBW 270 degree neon tape I could find, and the golf ball lamps while not bright (about 20 watts incandescent each) are individually addressed and RGBWW. In demo, yesterday... they were seemingly bring enough for the effect - Gen.1 lamps were used so new lamps will hopefully be better.

Problem now is that the main lighting for the theater is more a prop light.... still have to light the audience. Fixtures hang around 50' in the air over the main floor or 12' over the balcony. There is a central lamp socket at the center of the fixture which was on a separate circuit. In the past it was a R-Lamp in directional lighting. At the moment, looking to replace it with a T-Shaped LED fixture I forget the brand of. The larger OD of the T-shape is a large fluted heat sink which would look really retro bad.

However if I do another ring around this fixture’s OD heat sink to match the other two rings... It would certainly look almost as if it were designed that way. Than the problem... the Rosettes. I can fab. The ring and attach it to the heat sink, don’t have a source for the flower pedals. The central ball is easy enough to get.

A little Dremmel work with some scrap PVC solid stock and makings of a jig. Brought home three sizes of thin copper sheeting... but that won’t work in pounding out all 48x of them around this jig no matter how thin. Need to cast I think. Can’t be a flexible material casted with, or it will slump over the next 20 years, but also can’t be too fragile or it might break in transport or crack given it’s in a band around the heat sink - for the heat a powerful LED develops. Cheap and easy.

Thinking for mold just Plaster of Paris with just Vaseline or perhaps spray olive oil as a release. Easy to jig given the mold I made, easy to make a mold for four at a time with plaster - one at a time. Need to pound a #3 nail thru the center of my PVC jig and cut it off so as to make for a center mark of drilled mounting hole of the cast item.

Thinking 3M Epoxy gun in filling the molds/cast materials. Of those at home, DP-420 or DP-100 so far seem useful. The 3M Epoxy gun system sucks on website in figuring out differences or best for application. McMaster Carr’s website used to be more usefl on this product line also.

Figure though, if I get a epoxy casting, I can cut away the inverted parts of the flower pedals, and given a flat back - it won’t matter up in the air if stamped brass Rosette, or something of epoxy casting. Drill out and mount to a farmed out 6-32 internal threaded ball.

Epoxy if not too old shold take well to a plastic paint primer... than onto the color matching game for new ring and decorations. Thinking binder plate - flat head screw mounted, and welding flush a 1/16" aluminum banding. Taper the joint and flush weld, than either remove the plate or leave it. Sand blast the aluminum ring & color match paint It... More but initial thoughts.


Better way to make more of the c.1924 rosettes? Way over budget already in the addressable marquee lights and 270 degree RGBW mushroom Neon tape. My plan was much more simple... but Yes Sir! in doing what I'm told to do and it approved. I would like to do this detail cheap but will last at least 20 years.
 

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DrewE

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Mar 18, 2019
Location
Vermont
Fiberglass layup in a mold, perhaps? Maybe there is some bronzed finish gel coat available somewhere, or else just paint or finish conventionally.

Or, as Tim suggests, 3D printing might work, though some materials used are not very heat resistant. Plenty of metallic appearing and metal-infused filaments are available.

A CNC router could also duplicate them in wood or maybe aluminum fairly readily. For that matter, they don't look terribly tricky to hand carve in wood, if one has a bit of experience in relief carving, but nevertheless that's still a slow and rather exacting process.
 

ship

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Mar 29, 2003
Location
Illinois
Thanks all, and was thinking all above. Normal times and 48x of them to make, more staff. And way/way over budget for where it is turning out to be in what we are doing. I have a small stockpile of epoxy I think in making these from.

Plaster mold with the presented relief, than epoxy of a less flexible type casting? Something I have not done before. On the cheap but will last 20 or 30 years in fabricating.
 

TimMc

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Feb 15, 2017
One final question about Ointments. Here in the Plains states we have "oinkments", trinkets for the lonely swine, and then the "Preparation" for uncomfortable veins in impolite places. Is there something special that chandeliers need? :eek:
 

ship

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Mar 29, 2003
Location
Illinois
Adding a third ring to a two ring fixture. Given the flowers are on the other two rings, should probably fabricate this new ring, and add flowers.

Water Putty instead of plaster, first one worked out well, but I used spray graphite for the release. Not good in probably effecting future paint. Second mold - too watery a mix so wait, went with dry lube on the template for release. Water putty does not work well with oil based products. Yep definitely need to concentrate on the water mixture on the water putty for mixing the third, profile template dropped in finally but deep in swamp again.. Not something I have done in 15+ years perhaps more. I can do this.

Would love to go fiberglass or something else. Epoxy cast is what I am set up for doing. Pre-Pandemic, I had no budget for stock or R&D ability to buy... these days, I'm out of white 8" cable ties now in giving up all stock to the wall shield production line. Also out of 3M VHB tape, using carpet tape for the mockup & soon to be out of it. Used to just plain stock of VHB etc.

Scene shop manager has a 3D printer, much less a CNC machine he supervises. About at third shift levels in the scene shop at this point in making PPE day and night, no time for making ornaments to a light.
 

ship

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Mar 29, 2003
Location
Illinois
Waited too long on #4 casting.... settling up of of final casting imprant vs.water in sinking in too deep on #3. It dried too muh and is useless. Spray Nano lube been using for release, about to put some DP-100 epoxy into the molds once sprayed with lube. And re-do #4 once chipped out.

TBA tomorrow in 3M DP-100 epoxy for how well worked in mold and re-release and what i was able to. I either have three epoxy flowers, or three waste of times. "C' cccCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC Letter just ejected from my old lap top whih don't do Fa.e time in meetings. c Super glue it bak on as with the spazr bar of last. ccccccccccc Hopefully I have .... ah' nuz,,, nw laptop nezessart,,,, Worked so well many years - not good time to fail with keys popping off.
 
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DrewE

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Mar 18, 2019
Location
Vermont
You can plug in an external USB keyboard to nearly any laptop made in the past ten or fifteen years without any trouble. If the laptop has Bluetooth, you could also use a Bluetooth keyboard. Wired keyboards can be had for very little money and usually last quite well, though the cheap ones aren't especially nice to type on--nor, for that matter, are most laptop keyboards.

One other thought--you don't perchance have access to a vacuum forming machine, do you?
 

ship

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Mar 29, 2003
Location
Illinois
Thanks! Yea, "C" if I pound twize on it will work and perhaps an option for extra keyboard. Work Computer (four pounds), that's a good idea, or I Can (seven times) turn it in for a new one. Love this one. Hate new ones. Gaff tape over the finger pad and missing key and all. Great idea though in lots of keyboards available - thanks.

Castings didn't go well. Water putty with spray release and epoxy. They came out, but took too much material with. BaCk to work with Costing money for a solution. Looking like $3.2K each is now going to be under-budget again given my casting failure attempt.
 

ship

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Mar 29, 2003
Location
Illinois
Found a part https://www.outwater.com/products/wi-116/a/4/ a little larger & will have to cut some leafs to match, but workable. Amazing, half a day spent searching websites including this one. Only going thru the 2008 hard copy catalogue found the part that would work. The ball at the center, easily sourced. Outwater a really good source for in the pocket to find all sorts of stuff including LED from.

Next demo Friday, the two viable castings I made worked on tonight. It will help until I get the bought ones.
 
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ship

Senior Team Emeritus
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Joined
Mar 29, 2003
Location
Illinois
Got the light wired up today, than one of my assistants and I went to the store, and raided my garage. Overall around 20 different spray paint colors collected up. Success!!! The assistant in using a few combinations of paint and a few hours of R&D was able to texture and tone so close a match to the gold flowers... that part of the project I'm no longer worried about.

My boss in seeing how close to a match we got, was kind of un-interested and mentioned time spent on that detail. What? We are adding a third ring to a c.1925 chandiler, and the most prominant decoration is the flowers. Not concerned about matching the patina and color of the decoration? Guess he has the big picture on mind in how to get more money on the way over $3K per fixture each, which is fine in a way. I will look after the details that short of doing would make for a hack job.

In the morning we get to do the second demo and final choices on the lamp shades to finalize, after that... go go go for like 24 fixtures, one missing one to make from scratch - easy peesy..