Vintage Lighting date of Altman 660 beam projector

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Got in an Altman 660 Beam projector for the museum today - one of my boss’s garbage picked out of the old shop disposed of inventory. Can’t imagine getting rid of them, but than of course we are selling off all of our Mac 2K fixtures - even if longer lasting lamps fixture wise in best mover on the market for cost effectiveness by way of not killing off lamps before their time and even lasting well past double their lamp life. And got rid of all AF-1000 fixtures and for them had to rent many back for a later tour. Trashing a fixture on the other hand as trash picked... don’t get it if serviceable in not storing it. Two other examples from his attic, a few years ago he pulled out for a tour when the beam projector with scroller was the new follow spot concept. Stupid to throw out such things in realized like 20 years later, and lucky he saved them for future show. This one for the museum, was left in the attic in original mid-70's condition, three wire asbestos and all. At least I think it is an Altman. Totally matches up with the photo right down to the gel frame clips (so that’s the fixture they are from - got a box of extra gel frame clips.)

Only difference is the Altman website in I believe a 1990 catalogue lists this gel frame to be 12.7/8", and mine would take a 13.3/8" gel frame. Got one and it’s round with crossed supports. Also on the more modern in the picture, the focus/mounting mechanism shows three studs or screw feeds sticking out, mine only has two without any indication of a third. Can’t imagine what the third rail on center thing sticking up in the photo is for in showing it. Company I work for started in the Mid-70's, and these were bought for an early 1975 Bob Seger tour I think.

Same in all ways otherwise though missing it’s focus handle. I don’t have one similar and cannot get one so far. Easy enough to make given like eight hours to cut and grind one down, but otherwise I have a pheonic set screw knob that should work for now. Given this fixture probably is an Altman, but perhaps older style than listed say in 1990, it might have been slightly larger and perhaps used a different knob. Doubtful on the knob though given the other two I worked on had I think the same focus knob in use. On the other hand, I doubt this fixture given the proximity of the filament shield to the lampholder could mount a T-20 lamp and that puts it into the Quartz era.. Possible to mount a T-20 Fresnel lamp in it perhaps, but not as much space as I would think in filament shield in staying away from the bulb by a little.

The fixture was re-painted early corporate blue and chips of paint removed from it reveal that it was probably black originally, though not a textured black. Yoke focus knobs are normal cast aluminum for the 70's style in going into a stamped early PAR can like mounting standoff without clutch cam. Figure this fixture has to date after the 1968 or early 70's PAR Can from them. Nook’s article in PLSN places the 1966 Altman PAR can at a different date than the Altman current timeline. Interesting. (TBA this time line in Nook’s thoughts about remembrances from them that invented it.)

What year is this fixture? 1975 “Beautiful Looser” Seger tour perhaps, but was it bought used in being older? The Black Lekos's date to about 1990 from the website. Altman history off?
 
...Same in all ways otherwise though missing it’s focus handle. I don’t have one similar and cannot get one so far. Easy enough to make given like eight hours to cut and grind one down, but otherwise I have a pheonic set screw knob that should work for now. Given this fixture probably is an Altman, but perhaps older style than listed say in 1990, it might have been slightly larger and perhaps used a different knob. Doubtful on the knob though given the other two I worked on had I think the same focus knob in use. ...
What makes you think a phenolic set-screw knob would not be appropriate?
BP-focus_knob.jpg
Readily available at Knobs Direct, Knobs R US, or similar. I believe I've seen larger units with a crank handle, ala some Fresnels. Good idea as it takes a lot of rotations to achieve much noticeable difference when "focusing" a beam projector.

Note that in Moody's book Concert Lighting, he states that beam projectors had a bad reputation for falling apart on the road when used for touring. I always found that odd, in that BPs don't have any more moving parts than any other fixture, and in many cases, fewer parts.

EDIT: Okay, so 660.pdf shows a crank handle (I knew I'd seen it somewhere :confused:). Perhaps mine had been replaced already.
 
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What makes you think a phenolic set-screw knob would not be appropriate?

Readily available at Knobs Direct, Knobs R US, or similar.

Got one knob already, but the other fixtures I remember working on have the crank style I believe. On the other hand, of the above sources perhaps they will have one that I'm looking for - thanks.
 
I always find it funny how quick everyone was to get ride of their Beam Projectors, but now, if you look at the current "it" factor in moving lights, its big, fat, chunky beams.
 
What makes you think a phenolic set-screw knob would not be appropriate?
View attachment 3789
Readily available at Knobs Direct, Knobs R US, or similar. I believe I've seen larger units with a crank handle, ala some Fresnels. Good idea as it takes a lot of rotations to achieve much noticeable difference when "focusing" a beam projector.

Note that in Moody's book Concert Lighting, he states that beam projectors had a bad reputation for falling apart on the road when used for touring. I always found that odd, in that BPs don't have any more moving parts than any other fixture, and in many cases, fewer parts.

EDIT: Okay, so 660.pdf shows a crank handle (I knew I'd seen it somewhere :confused:). Perhaps mine had been replaced already.

No fair in re-posting with photo. Your knob is interesting in presenting rational for perhaps they were not crank style, interesting ground also. Mine has three Skintop type cord grips - one for ground and given the others I think should the crank style.

On the other hand in dating it, your's seem earlier than mine, what is your gel frame measurement and dating for your's?

Ibid... yea, crap that one would thow out such gear. This in me once seeing a pickum up truck at one point full of scrap yard old lights and considering chasing it down the street - this given I was seeing it thru a second floor window and it will have been a legendary chase. Sometimes you loose and sometimes them scrapping them are short sighted.
 
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...On the other hand in dating it, your's seem earlier than mine, what is your gel frame measurement and dating for your's? ...
No idea of the date. There's no markings on the unit whatsoever. The 2P&G is a fibre plug with "Century" stamped on it. Another picture:
3473d1282668225-beam-projector-rental-beamprojector.jpg
. The wiring is not original, and has been replaced, as it matches other fixtures obtained from the same venue. The colorframe, which I don't have, would be a ~13.5". I agree a T-20 lamp would be a tight fit. It does have a dark gray/black crinkle finish.
 
And you don't have your own museum yet why?

Measure if possible that gel frame clip measurement as they could be Centry. Photo on gel frame clips don't tell me and given older could have been cosmetic changes. Cut off in photo is gel frame clip.

I will interview various 'origionals' from the company about the fixture, but doubt they will remember.
 
Caution Inspection note on Altman 10" Beam Projectors

Noted on the #660 I’m refurbishing tonight that beyond the glide rod rusing, it’s gel frame clips spot welded to the frame not holding up too well, and under surface rust developing - that the lamp filament shield support wire weld is not very good and can easily become un-welded. Should it do so, it is very easy to throw off the optics with use in that shield pivoting and moving some.

Should be easy enough to weld or even braze back to the snout it’s mounted to but something to look at when servicing the fixture. Did this thin wire pop it’s weld? Slight movement won’t matter but given it’s fragility, something to inspect.

This all granted that it's a 1975 fixture, and slightly 7/8" different in gel frame size than what's in the 1990 Altman archive so such problems above might have been corrected in later versions.
 
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Re: Caution Inspection note on Altman 10" Beam Projectors

Contacted the person that bught the gear in 75' it was bought from Altman.

"Used as the saxophone and keyboard specials for Alto Reed and Bob Seger in Turn the Page."

As of this weekend, the fixture was complete and returned back to mint condition by way of all paint removed and all parts resurfaced. Plus re-wired. History of the fixture is rare and hard to get. Wonder if that increases the value?
 
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