Design thoughts - Community Theater Annie Get Your Gun

[BobHealey]

I don't have a clear vision from the director other than make it look like modern audiences expect period lighting to look like, so having a couple of different wild and crazy thoughts. Every fixture listed is lamped with halogen (750W or 1KW), and I do not have the funds to hunt down sufficient quantities of incandescents for the fixtures than can accept them.

Part of me wants to try something different and off the wall, the other part of me just wants to toss the rep plot back up so I can concentrate on mixing the show instead of trying new and different lighting stuff. Right now, I'm Light Designer, Show Electrician, Sound Designer, A1, A2, and light op. Hopefully not adding followspot op to the hat list.

Fixture Option 1.) Use as many 360's as can be made to work, filling in with 360Qs as needed, with 165Q or 175Qs. and some 50's vintage 8" Kligel fresnels for downlight.

Fixture Option 2.) Go with 8" Altman and Kliegel fresnels for front light, 6" Altman for downlight

Fixture Option 3.) Rehang "standard" (most light folks try to avoid touching any lights if at all possible, I don't care/mind and am leading off the season with all lights struck for cleaning) 360Q front wash with Source 4 specials and 65Q downwash.

Gel Option 1.) Roscolene + Lots of Heat Shield. I've got a swatch book and Rosco still in theory makes it, so I could light it using "classic" colors.

Gel Option 2.) Roscolux, but restrict to just the two digit ones and equivalant frosts to what is in roscolene book.

Gel Option 3.) Sky's the limit, Lee, Apollo, Gam, Roscolux, etc.

 

[lwinters630]

When I have to where that many hats, I keep things simple.
Take the set diagram, if rep plot will work, then add gels to help set - time of day, mood and those things. FOH con fill faces. Rosco 08 60 56 may mak it simple. Then spend your time seting cues.

 

[derekleffew]

... other than make it look like modern audiences expect period lighting to look like,

Period lighting? What Period? 1946 when the show premiered on Broadway? Or 1886 when the show is set? Who cares what the actual fixtures are? I counter that (the output from) VL4000 s or MAC Aura s can be made to look "period", and fifty-year-old Kliegl fresnels can be "modern." Color, angle, distribution, and movement are much more important than FEL, HPL575, 750T12/9 and so on. Using Roscolene won't make it look any more period than Roscolux 3xx.

Even if one could find and rehang Jo Mielziner's light plot from the Broadway production, wouldn't make it any better or appropriate. In fact, I guarantee today's audiences would hate it. Akin to today's CD/MP3 audiences wouldn't accept 78rpm record quality.

 

[RonHebbard]

I don't have a clear vision from the director other than make it look like modern audiences expect period lighting to look like, so having a couple of different wild and crazy thoughts. Every fixture listed is lamped with halogen (750W or 1KW), and I do not have the funds to hunt down sufficient quantities of incandescents for the fixtures than can accept them.

Part of me wants to try something different and off the wall, the other part of me just wants to toss the rep plot back up so I can concentrate on mixing the show instead of trying new and different lighting stuff. Right now, I'm Light Designer, Show Electrician, Sound Designer, A1, A2, and light op. Hopefully not adding followspot op to the hat list.

Fixture Option 1.) Use as many 360's as can be made to work, filling in with 360Qs as needed, with 165Q or 175Qs. and some 50's vintage 8" Kligel fresnels for downlight.

Fixture Option 2.) Go with 8" Altman and Kliegel fresnels for front light, 6" Altman for downlight

Fixture Option 3.) Rehang "standard" (most light folks try to avoid touching any lights if at all possible, I don't care/mind and am leading off the season with all lights struck for cleaning) 360Q front wash with Source 4 specials and 65Q downwash.

Gel Option 1.) Roscolene + Lots of Heat Shield. I've got a swatch book and Rosco still in theory makes it, so I could light it using "classic" colors.

Gel Option 2.) Roscolux, but restrict to just the two digit ones and equivalant frosts to what is in roscolene book.

Gel Option 3.) Sky's the limit, Lee, Apollo, Gam, Roscolux, etc.

I suspect you're over thinking this. If you produce something realistic but it's difficult to see the faces; folks won't be happy, including your director.
One; Provide good illumination.
Two; Conjure great looking, and impeccably timed, LXQ's that you, and everyone else, are thrilled with.
Three, and only after you've achieved my first two points; Worry about being 'arty'.
Them's my thoughts for you. Who am I? Nobody. Just some old guy of no import who's made every mistake in the book and still remembers most of them.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

 

[JD]

Every fixture listed is lamped with halogen (750W or 1KW), and I do not have the funds to hunt down sufficient quantities of incandescents for the fixtures than can accept them.

??? Halogen IS an incandescent lamp, just burning at bit hotter in a quartz envelope. Want an incandescent color temp (2700)? Simply lock the dimmers from going above 90%. Problem solved.

Still, I suspect what he has in mind is the old "film orange." Since I wouldn't want to run Halogen's below 80% (halogen cycle dies), I would just add some color correction to the gels.

 

[Les]

I agree that you might be over thinking this a bit, but I see what you're going for. It sounds like you're wanting a warmer over all look to the show, so I would turn more toward amber (R02) and blue (R60) front lighting as an example, but it doesn't matter whether you use 360Q's or Source Fours. No one will notice.

It has been over a decade since I did the show but from what I remember, it was very basic. I believe we had some festoons strung over the stage which gave it that carnival/fair look (and were used in a dimmer state for the "old fashioned wedding" song), but that worked for our space which was a semi-thrust. I would essentially just get the stage lit, have a compliment of RGBA color wash available whether it's from 1K pars or LEDs, and consider gelling your front lighting more toward amber rather than flesh pink.

Then, add whatever you can in period-looking practicals. They are what will really set off the old timey look you're trying to achieve. Luckily this show doesn't demand as much from its lighting design in comparison to, say, Les Mis or Into The Woods so you can really go pretty basic without much sacrifice.

 

[BobHealey]

I agree that you might be over thinking this a bit, but I see what you're going for. It sounds like you're wanting a warmer over all look to the show, so I would turn more toward amber (R02) and blue (R60) front lighting as an example, but it doesn't matter whether you use 360Q's or Source Fours. No one will notice.

It has been over a decade since I did the show but from what I remember, it was very basic. I believe we had some festoons strung over the stage which gave it that carnival/fair look (and were used in a dimmer state for the "old fashioned wedding" song), but that worked for our space which was a semi-thrust. I would essentially just get the stage lit, have a compliment of RGBA color wash available whether it's from 1K pars or LEDs, and consider gelling your front lighting more toward amber rather than flesh pink.

Then, add whatever you can in period-looking practicals. They are what will really set off the old timey look you're trying to achieve. Luckily this show doesn't demand as much from its lighting design in comparison to, say, Les Mis or Into The Woods so you can really go pretty basic without much sacrifice.

All the light pipes are in full audience view, so that's why I was pondering 360 (not Q) over Source 4, because they look old and would be visible to the audience. Right now I have the rare occurance of no in air plot, and a blank check to hang whatever i want, so was brainstorming alternatives to the standard 6 6x12, 4 6x16 360Q on 2nd Audience pipe; 6 6x12 360Q, 2 19 Degree Source Four with I-cue, Forerunner, and DMX iris on 1st audience pipe; 6 6" Fresnels each on 1st and 3rd Electric; and 2 WFL Source 4 Pars with R74 on 4th Electric (backlight for scene changes), with specials and additional down besides the standard warm/cool as needed.

 

[jonliles]

The audience isn't looking at the lights on the pipe. They're looking at the effects of the light on the stage. They don't care what the lights are overhead; they only care that they can see they show.

Use whatever light you deem necessary to achieve the design aesthetic on the stage where the light is visible.

Besides, using 360's do you really want to put that much heat on the stage?

 

[BobHealey]

The audience isn't looking at the lights on the pipe. They're looking at the effects of the light on the stage. They don't care what the lights are overhead; they only care that they can see they show.

Use whatever light you deem necessary to achieve the design aesthetic on the stage where the light is visible.

Besides, using 360's do you really want to put that much heat on the stage?

I'll rehang the standard plot. And do 360's really produce more heat than 360Q's?

 

[jonliles]

I'll rehang the standard plot. And do 360's really produce more heat than 360Q's?

360's are the old radial entry lights, yes they produce a fair amount more heat using a less efficient lamp.

If you have the budget, I'd go with all S4's where the lamp reflect allows the IR to pass through the reflector out instead of focusing it onto the stage like the metal reflectors of the 360s & 360Qs.

 

[Les]

Kind of hard to say which would throw more heat forward. In theory, the 360Q has better optics but the same reflector material, so given a 750w lamp, it would throw the most light and heat along with it. The 360 would throw less light and heat but you'll have to lamp higher to compensate. Might be a wash.

That said, I feel like stage lights all look the same to an audience member and they probably won't recognize a 360 as being old. I feel like your effort would be for nothing, other than technicians from other venues feeling sympathetic about the space still using 360's.