Diffusing Edges of Fresnel

[jacquilantern76]

Hi everyone,
So I am a HS lighting designer, and let me say up front I really have very little knowledge or experience. What I do know comes from google and from my predecessor lighting person (who was trained by an adult). Our company has fallen upon hard times, so I'm pretty much on my own to figure out this whole designing thing. However, I think its really nifty and want to do my best, I'm not just messing around - I really want to do the best I can. Keeping that in mind, please don't be afraid to challenge any idea I have that sounds disastrous.
So we are doing Twelfth Night, but our director has a vision (sigh). Basically with the idea he has I need 6 distinctly lit areas, but with diffuse edges. I don't have enough ellipsoidals to create these washes (also I think that would look strange because of so many angles), and the only other option I have available are 6" Strand fresnelites. However, the edges of the beams (please excuse any immature or innappropriate lingo ) are really sharp - from what I've learned from google this is how the lights are designed. Because of the confused and weird vibe of the comedy in this show, I would really like the undefined edges to match. Is there any way to do this?

 

[jglodeklights]

I think you may have your fixtures mixed up. The ellipsoidals, unless focused not at all, will produce a very sharp edge. A Fresnel will produce a soft but defined area, although when shaped with barndoors the edge may be more harsh. Either way, putting a diffusion gel such as Rosco 119 or 132 will soften the edge (if using a barndoor you'll need to clip it onto doors themselves.

 

[josh88]

Fresnels are already pretty diffused light but you can always soften things by getting some frost to out in front of the lens.

I'd always prefer a director with a concept over one without, even if I hate their ideas. At least they have a direct idea rather than just winging it and not really understanding what they want the show to be.


Via tapatalk

 

[jacquilantern76]

I can mess with the distance between the light source and the lens with the ellipsoidals, producing a softer edge, and I wanted to try to match that with the fresnels. I will try the frost, thanks.

 

[josh88]

if you're trying to get them to match, you'll have better luck making the ellipsoidal look like the output of the fresnels rather than the other way around.

 

[JD]

I can mess with the distance between the light source and the lens with the ellipsoidals, producing a softer edge, and I wanted to try to match that with the fresnels. I will try the frost, thanks.

Again, if you are able to move the lamp back and forth changing the distance between it and the lens, this sounds like a Fresnel. On an ellipsoidal, the lamp is in a fixed location, and you usually can adjust the lens barrel to change the focus. Fresnels are usually equipped with step lenses, ellipsoidals usually have clear lenses. (some exceptions.)

 

[jacquilantern76]

Again, if you are able to move the lamp back and forth changing the distance between it and the lens, this sounds like a Fresnel. On an ellipsoidal, the lamp is in a fixed location, and you usually can adjust the lens barrel to change the focus. Fresnels are usually equipped with step lenses, ellipsoidals usually have clear lenses. (some exceptions.)

It is an ellipsoidal - I adjust the distance by moving the barrel. Sorry for ambiguity

 

[robartsd]

if you're trying to get them to match, you'll have better luck making the ellipsoidal look like the output of the fresnels rather than the other way around.

I'd echo this. First get a look you like with the fresnels. With the fresnel lamp as far back in the fixture, you'd have a fairly small bright spot in the center with a wide diffused area arround it. With the lamp as close to the lens as possible, you'll get a fairly large area of light with a soft edge. The edge of the diffused area doesn't move much, just the distribution of light within it. After you get a distribution you like with the fresnel, move to the ellipsoidal and focus on geting a similar distribution, but don't worry much about how hard the edge is - if you get the distribution right, but the edge is still too hard add diffusion gel to get a softer edge. A very mild diffusion in the fresnel with a stronger diffusion in the ellipsoidal might make it easier to get similar looking effects.

 

[ship]

Just to ensure the "Fresnels" are not Plano Convex fixtures - they are often seemingly like Fresnels in size and shape, but with clear convex lenses instead of... Fresnel stepped lenses. PC fixtures will always have a hard edge when focused no matter the focus. Such fixtures have their uses but probably now for what you want them for.


Than second, the donut gel frame is also an option. Say on a 6" lens size, a 3" hole cut out of its center for a color gel, or even the old WD-40 method of frosting a gel and coating it's center with oil.