Dimmable CFL's that don't suck.

[Footer]

Its been well over a year since this was last brought up, so I am bringing it back up. We just had some of the people from the state (NYS owns my theatre) in to do some upgrades. We have 4 chandaliers in the venue that are 1930's vintage. We can not damage, modify, or change them in any way (historic building etc.) Each chandalier has about 50-60 lamps in it. After a paint job a few years ago the space need much more light to keep the place bright. Right now, we have 4 500w scoops to help light the space. The state wants to install dimmable CFL's to replace the lamps that are currently there. Power is being fed from 2 Luxtrol dimmer stacks. So, have dimmable CFL lamps improved at all? I am mainly concerned about the dimming curve with these units.

 

[Les]

I've never used these, but look in to CCFL's (Cold-Cathode Fluorescent Lights). They're supposed to be as energy efficient as CFL's, but they apparently have a more natural look and can be run off a dimmer. I don't know about the dimming curve -- never encountered one in the wild before. I'm also not sure if they come in the size/configuration that you need, but it might be worth looking in to.

 

[epimetheus]

I used cold cathodes in computer case modding back in the day before LED's became more popular. These were about 10" long and maybe 1/8" in diameter. Obviously not for area illumination purposes. I can't really speak to their dimming capabilities either. The ones I used had ballast modules that ran off DC.

This place seems to have dimmable PAR 38 CCFL's.

 

[avkid]

My lighting manager and I are constantly playing around with the newest CFL's.
There is nothing commercially available that dims like an incandescent yet.
You should definitely give Bulbtronics a call or visit.


Bulbs.com even has a disclaimer:

Product Notes: Please Test Small Quantities Before Investing in a Large Purchase. No Dimmable CFL Product Performs Like Traditional Incandescent or Halogen Bulbs. Dimmable CFL Bulbs May Not Work Well With Your Dimmer Switch and Even Those That Are Compatible Produce Noticeable Dimming Only Between 20-50% of Total Output. Traditional Bulbs Typically Dim from 0-100%, Dimmable CFL's Do Not.

 

[Footer]

My lighting manager and I are constantly playing around with the newest CFL's.
There is nothing commercially available that dims like an incandescent yet.
You should definitely give Bulbtronics a call or visit.


Bulbs.com even has a disclaimer:

''

I know this is kind of a fat chance of working right. I'm not crazy about the idea, I'm just after ammo to keep them from buying 280 bulbs that won't work right.

Here is what I am dealing with.... we have 4 of them. The room used to be bright blue and white, its now deep red and with a blue ceiling. The place just sucks up light.

 

[Grog12]

So, have dimmable CFL lamps improved at all? I am mainly concerned about the dimming curve with these units.

No they haven't. They still flicker.

 

[headcrab]

Define "suck," in the context of this thread.

Sorry, I just had to say that.

 

[avkid]

The only way to convince them would probably be to purchase enough lamps for one fixture and do a demonstration.
Seeing will definitely be believing in this case.

You could even bring in an outside consultant to do a simple side by side demonstration of the best cold cathode CFL and a regular incandescent.
Even the most uninformed bureaucrat will notice the difference.

 

[shiben]

This became an issue today, as our black box recently "upgraded" to CFL houselights. It was like a rave in there when we were dimming them because of the flickering. Cool for dance, not cool for a smooth fade to pre-show blackout.

 

[LuxMax]

The only drop-in energy efficient, dimmable replacement that is half decent is a Cold Cathode lamp. The nice things about them are they have a good color temp, very long life (25k hours), and are dimmable (better than CFL but not perfect).
The problems are price and brightness. Right now you can buy 3w lamps in a an S14 shape for about $15. It is comparable to a 15w incan lamp. There are A19 shape versions at 5 and 8 watts which are supposed to be close to 25w and 40w respectively.
Those go for between $18-25 each.

 

[ToddH]

Why not LED? Ushio, Osram and Philips all make really nice LED lamps with great color temperatures that will also dim.

If you still want CFL/cold cathode look at Ushio. They have dialed in the color temperatures quite well to 2700.

The big problem with most "a-lamp" products currently is dimming to 0%. Most dim to 10%. CK might be your best bet.

 

[gordonmcleod]

The USHIO cold cathode will not dim on an electronic triac or SCR dimmer at all in fact it behaves like a dead short at about 50%
We ordered over a 1000 of them for a job and ended up sending them back

Why not LED? Ushio, Osram and Philips all make really nice LED lamps with great color temperatures that will also dim.

If you still want CFL/cold cathode look at Ushio. They have dialed in the color temperatures quite well to 2700.

The big problem with most "a-lamp" products currently is dimming to 0%. Most dim to 10%. CK might be your best bet.

 

[JD]

I would hold off. LEDs are still too expensive, but have the potential of having a very nice curve once the price is right. There is long term cost saving due to lower energy consumption and extremely long life, omitting labor costs involved in re-lamping. There are some nice white LEDs that have very good color temperature due to improvements in the phosphorous compounds used. (Remember, a white LED is really a UV LED with phosphorous.) You can even get these at home depot, but a bit pricey. The problem is, many of these use a switch-mode power supply inside and they don't dim well.

Soon... soon.....