Control/Dimming Dimmer fans staying on

[strandcentury]

My schools main performance space is running two 12 ch dimming packs and one six channel pack.

Strand CD80 12ch @ 2.4k AMX to DMX converted - 230V 100A
Dilor M1224 0-10v 12ch @ 2.4k - 230V 100A
Electro-Controls 0-10v 6ch @ 2.4k (has no fan) 220V - 50A

The Dilor 0-10v pack has been retrofitted with a Fleenor dmx to analog converter unit. The fans stay on even when the console is unplugged and all DMX channels are at 0. The other dimmers fans shut off or go to low rev when the dmx signal is lost. The Fleenor unit is configured to retain the last dmx signal sent (no black out on cable disconnection). My initial though was that the 0-10v signal generated by the Fleenor converter unit may still be present and running through the system to the dimmers even when the signal it cut. Our contractors reply was to adjust the "trim" on the unit. I could not find any kind of trim knob or dip switch. What frustrates me even more is when we cut power to the conversion units, the fans still remain on. However, the console we had before which was used with the M1224 pack as a backup system (an old Dilor C-Series 12ch 2scene preset) would trigger the dimmer to turn its fan off after 30 seconds or so of no connectivity to the console. Is it possible that the dimmers pin 13 (1-12 is being used for ch1-12 and pin 14 as common) could be for fan control? and if yes how would that be connected into the dmx conversion system, is it standard 0-10v signal?

Our console is an ETC SmartFade 24/96

Also, does this problem present any risk for the health of our dimmers. Will it harm them?

Any help is much appreciated

 

[FMEng]

My schools main performance space is running two 12 ch dimming packs and one six channel pack.

Strand CD80 12ch @ 2.4k AMX to DMX converted - 230V 100A
Dilor M1224 0-10v 12ch @ 2.4k - 230V 100A
Electro-Controls 0-10v 6ch @ 2.4k (has no fan) 220V - 50A

The Dilor 0-10v pack has been retrofitted with a Fleenor dmx to analog converter unit. The fans stay on even when the console is unplugged and all DMX channels are at 0. The other dimmers fans shut off or go to low rev when the dmx signal is lost. The Fleenor unit is configured to retain the last dmx signal sent (no black out on cable disconnection). My initial though was that the 0-10v signal generated by the Fleenor converter unit may still be present and running through the system to the dimmers even when the signal it cut. Our contractors reply was to adjust the "trim" on the unit. I could not find any kind of trim knob or dip switch. What frustrates me even more is when we cut power to the conversion units, the fans still remain on. However, the console we had before which was used with the M1224 pack as a backup system (an old Dilor C-Series 12ch 2scene preset) would trigger the dimmer to turn its fan off after 30 seconds or so of no connectivity to the console. Is it possible that the dimmers pin 13 (1-12 is being used for ch1-12 and pin 14 as common) could be for fan control? and if yes how would that be connected into the dmx conversion system, is it standard 0-10v signal?

Our console is an ETC SmartFade 24/96

Also, does this problem present any risk for the health of our dimmers. Will it harm them?

Any help is much appreciated

I can't find any information on the Dilor dimmers. You might want to see if your school has any documentation on the dimmer pack because that could answer your question. We can make some possibly wrong assumptions about the Dilor based on how most older, analog-control dimmers work:

The fan is usually turned on when the system thinks any of the dimmers are being told to turn on. Trim is an adjustment that sets how each dimmer's output corresponds to the control voltage input. When it is set properly, the dimmer reaches full output at when the input is 10 Volts DC, and the output falls to nothing as the input reaches 0 Volts. If the trim is out of adjustment, one or more dimmers may be ever so slightly turned on even when the control input is zero.

If the trim for any of the twelve dimmers is off slightly, that would explain the fan running with no control voltage from the converter. That is why your contractor suggested a trim problem.

The problem is that we don't know what the trim adjustment procedure for this beast is. Chances are the trim adjustments are inside the dimmer's enclosure. To make adjustments there would expose you to potentially lethal voltages, so please do not attempt it. Have a qualified technician look at it.

Having the fan run all of the time just shortens the life of the fan itself, and increases the amount of dust that will build up on the heat sinks inside the unit. Dust on heat sinks reduces their ability to keep the power semi-conductors at a safe temperature, and a fan failure would also cause excessive heat.. Clean and cool is what keeps all electronic systems happy.

 

[strandcentury]

The problem is that our local contractor will not even touch this Dilor dimmer since they don't know enough about it. Can you recommend any resources on where to find the documentation for this dimmer?. We have no documentation at all. We only have documentation for the CD80, Console, and some of our fixtures. I searched the internet and Google only pops up with 4 results. One of the results is from one of our local universities, it claims that they have a very similar set up. May ask them if they have anything. Could the trim possibly be on the converter?. I will check the manual for that anyways.

Thanks for your help. We always cut power to our dimmer area during winter break and other long holidays anyways so at least I don't have to have nightmares about it being burned out when I come back in the new year.

Thanks again.

I can't find any information on the Dilor dimmers. You might want to see if your school has any documentation on the dimmer pack because that could answer your question. We can make some possibly wrong assumptions about the Dilor based on how most older, analog-control dimmers work:

The fan is usually turned on when the system thinks any of the dimmers are being told to turn on. Trim is an adjustment that sets how each dimmer's output corresponds to the control voltage input. When it is set properly, the dimmer reaches full output at when the input is 10 Volts DC, and the output falls to nothing as the input reaches 0 Volts. If the trim is out of adjustment, one or more dimmers may be ever so slightly turned on even when the control input is zero.

If the trim for any of the twelve dimmers is off slightly, that would explain the fan running with no control voltage from the converter. That is why your contractor suggested a trim problem.

The problem is that we don't know what the trim adjustment procedure for this beast is. Chances are the trim adjustments are inside the dimmer's enclosure. To make adjustments there would expose you to potentially lethal voltages, so please do not attempt it. Have a qualified technician look at it.

Having the fan run all of the time just shortens the life of the fan itself, and increases the amount of dust that will build up on the heat sinks inside the unit. Dust on heat sinks reduces their ability to keep the power semi-conductors at a safe temperature, and a fan failure would also cause excessive heat.. Clean and cool is what keeps all electronic systems happy.

 

[JD]

OK, time to divide and conquer. Unplug the analog input connector on the dimmer pack itself. Do the fans turn off? If so, the trim problem is at the board or the converter unit and you should be able to get tech help on those. If they still stay on, then the problem is in the pack and you are back to square one.

 

[pathway]

Was the old Dilor console powered from the M1224 pack, or did it have its own AC power cord? I think you might be on the right track with the pin 13/14 concept. The console's on/off switch may have grounded the fan control line, and there was definitely a fan timeout circuit on the PSR (power supply / ramp) plug-in card located to the left of the 4 triple-dimmer modules. Perhaps the fan control line was jumpered permanently to the signal common wire when the Fleenor demux was added?