DMX Controllers - need to understand channel differences

[BadRad]

Can someone help me understand the differences in DMX channel capabilities between some of these different controllers?

Obey 40

• Controls up to 12 intelligent lights of up to 16 channels each
• 30 banks of 8 scenes, 240 scenes max
• 192 DMX channels of control

Does this mean 192 DMX channels of control 'per scene'?

Stage Designer 50

• 48-channel DMX-512 dimming console
• 8 pages with 12 scenes each yields 48 total playback faders (simultaneous playback)

Does this mean only 48 DMX channels of control 'per scene'?

Which board gives me the most control over scenes if I have only 12 intelligent fixtures with anywhere from 5-12 channels each? The descriptions make it hard to understand.

 

[danTt]

"scenes" are associated with playback, not control. Therefore, the obey 40 can control 192 addresses, and the designer can control 48. The designer has 96 possible "scenes" or "cues?" associated with it, the obey has 240.

Because you have a minimum of 60 (12 devices * 5 attributes) addresses, the stage designer would not work for you. Without knowing what you are doing, I cannot say whether or not the obey will, but it's a lot more likely to do so.

 

[jjhall5150]

I am not familiar with Stage Designer 50, however I have had good response with the Obey 40.

There is a learning curve with DMX on simplistic controllers, but since I only work with basic uplighting and a few effects, the Obey works just fine for my applications. To make things simple for me, I actually run two controllers, an Obey 4 and 40. I use the 4 model for wall lighting and the other controller for dance floor lighting.

I would be better to know what you are trying to accomplish because there are limitations with certain hardware controllers

 

[BadRad]

"scenes" are associated with playback, not control. Therefore, the obey 40 can control 192 addresses, and the designer can control 48. The designer has 96 possible "scenes" or "cues?" associated with it, the obey has 240.

Because you have a minimum of 60 (12 devices * 5 attributes) addresses, the stage designer would not work for you. Without knowing what you are doing, I cannot say whether or not the obey will, but it's a lot more likely to do so.

OK, so these boards are really designed (though not exclusive) for 2 different purposes - the Obey 40 for ease of control with intelligent fixtures and the other (Stage Designer) as a fader board for standard cans, correct?

I was thinking the Stage Designer was the more full featured board based on price and perceived features, but it appears that it would be limiting for me with all intelligent fixtures.

 

[BadRad]

I am not familiar with Stage Designer 50, however I have had good response with the Obey 40.

There is a learning curve with DMX on simplistic controllers, but since I only work with basic uplighting and a few effects, the Obey works just fine for my applications. To make things simple for me, I actually run two controllers, an Obey 4 and 40. I use the 4 model for wall lighting and the other controller for dance floor lighting.

I would be better to know what you are trying to accomplish because there are limitations with certain hardware controllers

I have another post that goes over what I'm trying to do here (performance automation via MIDI of intelligent fixtures):
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...pensive-controller-enhanced-midi-support.html
but I was having trouble understanding the design of these 2 boards, as I didn't realize the SD 50 may not be able to address all my intelligent controllers as easily as the Obey, as it seems to be built for a different purpose (basic fade control). This changes my overall thinking on the type of controller I should be looking at.

 

[BadRad]

I am not familiar with Stage Designer 50, however I have had good response with the Obey 40.

I'm still a little unfamiliar with some of the DMX controlled equipment. Are each of the scenes on the Obey 40 independent or can 2 scenes be used together? For example, can I set up one scene with a basic wash with LED pars, and a second with spots - then turn both scenes on at the same time? My original assumption is that you can't, but if so, the 40 would allow me all the control I need via MIDI control.

 

[BillESC]

No, you can not turn on two scenes at the same time. However, you can copy your "wash" scene to a new scene add the spots and save as a new scene.

 

[BadRad]

Yup, that's what I was afraid of. While that works well from board control, it's a whole different thing with MIDI foot control as I'd need a different note-on switch every time I need a spot to turn on with a particular scene. Unfortunately, I haven't found a DMX console yet with a comprehensive MIDI specification. Was hoping to find something that would give me a MIDI addressable full-on for a particular fixture.

Regardless, I think I can still make the Obey work for my needs. Thanks.

 

[FatherMurphy]

Just to clarify a bit for the less-experienced people reading this thread, the word 'channel' can refer to two different, but related, things in lighting control. It sometimes means 'intensity channel', the name for the information for one DMX address, and sometimes it means 'control fader', the actual knob on the console you're pushing up and down. Multiple dimmers and other things can be assigned, or patched, to a fader by telling the console which DMX addresses you want associated to it.

Most consoles send information to all 512 addresses in a DMX universe, and larger (and more expensive) consoles can send to more than one universe. However, some of the less expensive consoles save computing power (and money) by limiting their output to less than a full universe. They tend to end up working with multiples of eight for circuit design reasons, hence 48, 96, 192 etc., for resulting limits on channel capacity. This isn't a problem if you're only using a few dozen dimmers patched 1:1, but can be more limiting if you're trying to control larger systems, be it number of dimmers or quantities of movers or LEDs.

The Stage Designer 50 information could be misleading, since the 48 channels mentioned could be read as 48 faders, using the A/B bank feature. However, looking at the manual, it seems that 48 seems to be the DMX limit as well, since they only talk about combining the existing 48 faders as part of their patching abilities. If that is the case, then reassigning say, DMX channel 45 onto fader 1 would result in fader 1 bringing up two dimmers, and fader 45 doing nothing.

 

[BadRad]

The Stage Designer 50 information could be misleading, since the 48 channels mentioned could be read as 48 faders, using the A/B bank feature. However, looking at the manual, it seems that 48 seems to be the DMX limit as well, since they only talk about combining the existing 48 faders as part of their patching abilities. If that is the case, then reassigning say, DMX channel 45 onto fader 1 would result in fader 1 bringing up two dimmers, and fader 45 doing nothing.

Appreciate all the clarifications, and it definitely was causing me a bit of confusion. I had originally thought the Stage Designer 50 was the more capable board, and it obviously would be in specific situations - but even with a small arsenal of cheap intelligent lights, 48 channels can be used up very quickly.

 

[BadRad]

I'm not to well versed in midi control, but judging by the complexity of what your end goal is I would highly suggest looking into PC based controllers. ADJ, Chauvet, Magic Q PC, Freestyler, and the like. They are going to allow you to have a level of control and flexibility in programming that physical boards in your price range just won't be able to achieve.

Of course that's true - but I'm not a fan of PCs on stage, especially with a 3-piece band with reasonable production, but no production personnel. If I used PCs for lights, then I'd certainly use them for the keyboard rigs, virtual synths, midi filtering/mapping, setlist management, etc - and I'd end up with 3-4 PCs and be tied up keeping systems running rather than making music. Up to this point, we've kept the PCs off the stage, so I'd prefer to go the hardware path at this time.

The obey 40 is a glorified toy and definitely won't give you what you want.

Not so sure, but I also understand what you mean. I actually just bought the Obey, hooked it up and got all of our fixtures working in about an hour. Not sure I'd want to run a show as a tech from this controller, but it seems fine for setting up scenes that will be triggered via MIDI.

This rig was never meant to take the place of full scale show run by a capable lighting tech, but is designed to get the most out of a handful of fixtures - all triggered off of existing equipment from existing performance queues. If I need more control, I'm also looking into a DMX to MIDI Decabox which can record scenes from an existing console and also give more direct control of specific fixtures using more sophisticated MIDI control than what I'm able to find in even a $2000 controller.

Time will tell, but it appears the Obey will work for us at this point.

Appreciate the insight, though!