DMX'ing Your Hazer

V

Voltage

Member
Hello everyone. This is my first post on this board. I just happened upon these forums while doing a Google search this evening. It looks pretty cool.

As an fyi, I am just a part time lighting guy who works mainly on weekends, and I have a regular job during the week. I bought my first moving heads about 2 1/2 years ago, and now my rig has grown faster than my knowledge. I never realized there would be such a demand for stage lighting in bars and small venues. So I apologize ahead of time if any of my questions or statements sound noobish.

With all that being said here is my question. Is there any real advantage to running dmx to your hazer? A hazer I picked up tonight has dmx capability. I never have really seen the point of running a hazer on anything but a timer. As far as I have been concerned it was only one more thing to worry about in the dmx chain for no real benefit. My distributor mentioned to me that you think that way until you try it and then you will never go back. Do you all feel this way?
 
Welcome to CB!

I know a few LDs who like to run hazers off DMX so if the band gets onstage and asks to turn off the hazer, you can just turn off the hazer from the console, instead of finding someone to do it, or do it yourself.
 
I will NOT run a hazer off just a timer.

1. DMX controlled hazers usually allow for the setting of haze volume and fan speed, meaning you can control when it will just fill the air with some light catching stuff and when it will create a mass around everyone on the dance floor.

2. You can achieve these effects at the appropriate times more easily.

3. You have easier ability to control the volume of the haze as air movement shifts throughout the night/performance.

DMX also allows for easily repeatable shifts in volume that integrate with any lighting plans, without needing to introduce another element of human error in control. Set it into cues in the control; pretty much forget it.
 
Usually when I need a hazer, I rent a DF-50, which is just on/off. I swap a dimmer in my dimming rack for a relay, and control on/off from the lighting console via DMX.

Then I run manual control of the hazer on a toggle button. I only ever do manual control because every night the haze will propagate through the venue differently depending on HVAC, temperature, humidity, and how many doors to the house/stage are open. The value of DMX control for me is I can always add more haze or kill the hazer mid-show without having to walk down from the control booth, through the backstage hallway, and up into a flight of stairs on stage that I put the hazer on.

I could program the hazer into the cues, but I hardly ever have the same show in the venue for more than three performances, which means it's a lot of trouble for me to try and get the hazer programmed into a cue stack. From a clear atmosphere, it can take 5-10 minutes with our HVAC for the haze to distribute through the stage evenly, and I'd then have to be guessing which cues are 5-10 minutes in advance of when I need the haze to be perfect.

If this was resident theatre and we did the same show every night, 6 nights a week for 3 weeks straight, programming the hazer into cues would be valuable, but we don't, so it's not.

It depends how you use your hazer, but for me DMX control is completely necessary so I can have manual control from the lighting console.
 
Having dmx control means ability to make minor adjustments to the amount of output. It also means that you don't have to walk to someplace that is maybe hard to get to in order to control it. If your FOH is 50 - 200' away, and there's a huge crowd of drunken jerks between you and the stage, then yes, it's worth it.
 
len said:
Having dmx control means ability to make minor adjustments to the amount of output. It also means that you don't have to walk to someplace that is maybe hard to get to in order to control it. If your FOH is 50 - 200' away, and there's a huge crowd of drunken jerks between you and the stage, then yes, it's worth it.
Click to expand...

That's pretty much the only advantage I am seeing. Having drunks 50' to 100' between me and the stage is a constant hazard. But that is why I have assistants. They can run up there and do that. LOL.
 
Voltage said:
That's pretty much the only advantage I am seeing. Having drunks 50' to 100' between me and the stage is a constant hazard. But that is why I have assistants. They can run up there and do that. LOL.
Click to expand...
And if you have DMX control you can do it and never move. It saves the asst three or four trips to the stage to fine tune flow.
 
In my opinion, DMX control of haze is extremely important in the theatrical and touring world, but less important in a club type setting. In theatre, the audience size, weather, air currents, and many other factors can all change how the haze flows from day to day, and tours have even more variables, so it's very important to be able to quickly turn off or restrict the haze flow if you start to lose sight of the cast through the haze. In a club setting, I feel like the ideal haze level is a little wider, so you can afford to over-haze for a minute or two while you send someone to manually dial it back. Of course, DMX control would be preferable just because it saves the walk up to where the hazer is, but it's far from a requirement.

Most shows that I program are using the MDG Atmosphere or sometimes the DF-50. When I'm programming, I usually write an "On 30s/Off 30s" effect and apply it to the hazer, then put that effect on a submaster. As we go through the show, if there's a certain time when the LD wants the haze off or something, I just link a macro from the previous cue to turn the Haze sub to 0%, which stops the haze indefinitely. When we want haze back, I just link a second macro to bring the haze sub back to FL. As we go through tech, I will adjust the on/off time of the effect to get close to what level of haze the LD is looking for. This method works especially well for touring shows, because if a certain venue is filling up with more haze than is desirable, the operator can just pull down the handle and the haze will stop until it's restored. For longer cycle times like 3m/3m or so, I've also done it where I put the Haze at FL in the submaster, then apply the on/off effect to the submaster itself, so the handle will actually raise and lower every time the haze turns on and off (assuming flying faders). This does keep the operator more aware of what the haze is doing at any given moment, but it makes it more difficult to temporarily shut off the haze since it'll pop right back up in another 2 minutes - plus the constant "zip" sound of the fader going up and down can drive some people insane. :)
 
Another possible factor is that a hazer MAY not like to be cycled on and off so frequently. Being able to set an output level and leave it is what you want. It's not a fog machine.
 
Yes there is a limit to DMX. It's about 2900m under ideal circumstances. Real world distances would be lower but 130m is not an issue.

To debug your issue, you should try connecting the Hazer directly to the console with no other devices in the chain.

Once you confirm you can control it, try moving it back to the end of the chain. If it doesn't work there, you have a cabling issue. If you can control the LEDs, but not the hazer, then there is a good chance the problem is either with the last LED unit, or the cable between the unit and the Hazer.
 
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the DMX limit a single cable limit? If you are running a DMX universe through pass-through's do the unit's send a full strength signal downstream?
 
chausman said:
DMX is limited to 32 devices per stream, be it consoles, dimmers, fixtures, whatever. But, with an optositter, that is 32 for each 'branch' of the signal.


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Click to expand...

That is also a very soft limit. Cable runs, quality of the DMX interface, and a bunch of other stuff can change that number in both directions. Some newer fixture re-generate the signal... other fixtures do a pretty poor job of keeping the signal strong. If you use an opto (they are cheap) and run a fresh line to each position rarely will you have any problems.
 
thanks guys for all the information good to know :)

I think It could be the fixture personality I'm using , avolites titan has no fp for the swefog hazer I'm using . so I'm just using the only one in the desk with 2 channels .

I will try and build one from the avolites website I have not done this before should be a learning curve ..

cheers bigears
 
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