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Equalizer

Discussion in 'Sound, Music, and Intercom' started by mbandgeek, Apr 13, 2006.

  1. mbandgeek

    mbandgeek Active Member

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    I am farmiliar with what an equalizer does, but where does it go in the lineup from the mixing board to the speakers? Is it before or after the preamps?

    All of the line up i Know is:

    Sound Input-> Mixing Board-> Preamps-> Speakers


    Also, How do you hook up an effects processor? I have seen some different setups for this. I have seen it ran as a microphone and i have seen it coming in from the mic itself.

    as always I'm just trying to boost my knowledge.

    Thanks
     
  2. soundman1024

    soundman1024 Active Member

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    An equalizer for the system goes after the mixing board before the poweramps.

    Input -> Mixer (preamps are on the mixer) -> DSP(Equalizer, Compressor/Limiter, Crossover order may depend on setup), Poweramps, Speakers

    On most boards there is an equalizer for every channel. These range from a tilt knob with one side low and one side high to complex 4 band fully parametric equalizer with a high pass filter. Perhaps even more than 4, though I haven't seen more than 4.

    Effects are sometimes done in different ways. One way is an "insert" on a single channel. On most soundboards above where the mic plugs in there will be a 1/4in TRS plug that one could put a cord into. It has a send, and a return. This then goes into the processor and is used for one channel only. The other way is to hook the unit up on an AUX output and send it back into an AUX return or another channel. Personally I like the AUX method more as more than one input can use the effects processor at once. The insert is more commonly used for compressors and gates, which I would not consider using an AUX for.
     
  3. the_dude

    the_dude Member

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    The preamp is basically what the mic cable plugs into on the back of your console. An amp, or amplifier, is what powers the speakers. An equalizer goes before the amps but after the console. It can either be wired in line, Console output-eq input, eq output-amp input. Or inserted on the main outs using an insert cable or separate sends/returns should your console have them.

    I'm kind of confused about the fx question but I'm guessing what you were trying to say was you've seen it on stage with the mic plugged into in it and then the fx unit plugged into your snake, or you've seen it on a fader on the console. Typically (99.5%) an effect being sent from the stage is the bands and they use it to create a very different and unique sound, not always good, but unique. These effects units usually have multiple things going on such as hamonizers, chorus, flangers, phase shift, delays, and other weird goofyness. FOH processing (at the console on a fader) is routine stuff that you would see in any respectable venue/touring rig. Reverbs, delays, gates, and compressors are all very typical. Although any of these can be inserted as well. They can also be used through an aux send. Gates, and comps are usually inserted, Delays and reverbs are usually sent through an aux, as are compressors on occasion.
     
  4. mbandgeek

    mbandgeek Active Member

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    that actually makes a lot of sense, you wouldn't want to blow out your equalizer by pushing too much power through it. The effects processor was plugged into a snake. I also remeber one of the musicians pedal boards that they ran a mic through, very strange.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2006
  5. soundman1024

    soundman1024 Active Member

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    I understand using pedals, but what exactly did they do? Did they use adaptors out of the snake to go from XLR to 1/4 into the pedal then out of the pedal into a vocal mic with a 1/4 back to XLR?
     
  6. mbandgeek

    mbandgeek Active Member

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    It was very odd. It made their voice go through the effects processor instead of their guitars. I think it wasn't a professional audio one, but one that you plug a guitar into. It distorted their voice like giving it reverb, and the other various effects. They used an Xlr to 1/4" to get the mic to go into the processor, and then converted it right off the back of the processor using a 1/4" to Xlr converter.
     
  7. soundman1024

    soundman1024 Active Member

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    That is something that will not work if the mic needs 48v phantom power. It is an interesting idea though. Personally I would rather have the vocal processing in FOH with me rather than at the hands of the person singing it. The vocalist probably would rather have their processing done by them instead of on the booth though.
     
  8. AVGuyAndy

    AVGuyAndy Active Member

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  9. mbandgeek

    mbandgeek Active Member

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    Some how they got it to work, it was very cool sounding though.
     
  10. Chris15

    Chris15 CBMod CB Mods Premium Member

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    Not to shatter anyone's ideas, but it would not be that hard to do. If you have 2 transformer DI boxes, connect one of them to the output of the effects unit and the snake as normal and connect the other one in reverse, with a female to female XLR going from the mic to the DI "out" and connect the DI "in" to the effects unit input. Won't work with an active DI, only with a transformer based unit. Phantom power should not cause any problems. Though giving the talent the ability to alter the sound might be something you want to think about...
     
  11. AVGuyAndy

    AVGuyAndy Active Member

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    Even with that setup you only have a 100% wet signal. I suppose you could split the mic before the first DI, and then you have your dry and wet.
     
  12. Chris15

    Chris15 CBMod CB Mods Premium Member

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    I prefer the idea of feeding a dry signal only and not letting the musician have a chance of stuffing it up.
     
  13. Andy_Leviss

    Andy_Leviss Active Member Premium Member

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    Chris is right, most engineers use 100% wet. The send from the console goes to the effects unit via a post-fader aux send (so that it follows the mix), and then the output of the effects unit, set 100% wet, is returned into a spare input channel or two (stereo, usually, although often summed back to mono, unless really running a real stereo sound system, which usually isn't the case, even when one thinks he is, but that's another thread altogether).

    This allows the engineer to add as much or as little of the processed sound as needed and easily vary it based on the song. The last month or so I've been mixing a one-man Off-Broadway show that features a fast medley of nearly a dozen 60s rock songs; in the course of two minutes or so, the verb level varied over a range of around 20 dB, to fit each song.

    Although not in common use, there are engineers who use foot pedal processors at FOH for a certain effect they can't get from other processors. They'll often just mount them to the meter bridge or to the top of a rack, although some guys do use them on the floor.

    --A
     
  14. AVGuyAndy

    AVGuyAndy Active Member

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    Sure, but that's not what we are talking about here, Chris. I think everyone would prefer dry only from stage. I provided a solution that gives you a 100% wet, and 100% dry singal from this bass-ackwards guitar pedal for vocals idea. Then back at the baord, you can mix to taste.
     
  15. Chris15

    Chris15 CBMod CB Mods Premium Member

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    And if you can't get the desired effect in a pro device? Then you have to look for something that will work with the equipment that the singer feels that they must use. Life is not as easy as we would like it to be and so we have to work out ways of using the equipment that they feel that they must have and I don't believe that your solution would do that. Besides, $800 for a pedal board is going to cost prohibitive for some and so you will be stuck using low end gear.
     
  16. AVGuyAndy

    AVGuyAndy Active Member

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    I don't know why you think my solution wouldn't work, let me draw it out for you...

    FOH----1:1 balancing transformer--guitar pedal--1:1 unbalancing trnsfmr---+--mic
    ....................................................................................................|
    ....................................................................................................|
    .....................................................................................(dry signal)-----FOH

    (ignore periods)
     
  17. Chris15

    Chris15 CBMod CB Mods Premium Member

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    I must have misinterpreted you suggestion. What you propose would work. It would use 2 channels but that is the price you pay for control and that would be the same regardless of the setup if you wanted both wet and dry. The transformers would not be 1:1, but I get what you mean.
     
  18. Andy_Leviss

    Andy_Leviss Active Member Premium Member

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    Why leave the pedal at the stage? Just because it's a pedal <I>normally</i> used on stage, don't restrict yourself to that. As I noted, more than a couple top tour FOH guys use guitar pedals as processing devices at FOH.

    It's actually a good lesson in general when it comes to getting the sound you want...don't be afraid to think outside the box!
     
  19. AVGuyAndy

    AVGuyAndy Active Member

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    I agree that all fx should be at FOH, but the discussion was about fx on stage, controlled by the vocalists.
     
  20. mbandgeek

    mbandgeek Active Member

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    what does "foh" mean?
     

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