ETC PARnel, Deep Color Gel Lasting

[NickVon]

So i have a number of PARs I've been thinking of replacing to save inventory space and money on the PAR lamps while adding the flixiblty of lens the PARnels bring.

I've asked around a little bit about the down sides to PARnels, and the naswer comes back as much quicker burn through on Deep Color Gell, Talking deep blue/Red/Lav/Orange.

As these color washes for our stage are what i was initilly looking at PARnel's for, i have some follow up questions for those that have worked with them.

1) Is this burn though on gel in fact more prevalent then a standard parcan.?
2) Is there a gel brand, or a product which helps to make gel last a little longer. (do they make gel extenders in 8" frames?

Are their any other thoughts regarding the switch from 500/1k watt pars to 575/750w HPL PARnels?

Maybe this point is all mute with the ETC Fresnel being released soon, and that would be my better option? (though unable to be used on the ETC Fresnels, which was the route I was looking at for the PARnels)

 

[icewolf08]

First off, the PARnel is one of those fixtures that some people love, and some hate. Most will tell you that you can't think if it as a direct replacement of a PAR, it really is it's own fixture as it is neither a PAR nor a Fresnel. If you are replacing PARs, I would strongly suggest looking at the Source 4 PAR. First off, you will get much better output from a Source 4 PAR as there is only one -piece of glass in the front. Also, the beam will feel more like the PAR beam you are used to. I have never had major color burnout issues on my Source 4 PARs, but with deep colors you will probably burn through eventually.

As for protecting gel, the best product I have use is the Apollo Gel Shield. It is expensive, but it works great. I don't know if you can get a true color extender in a 7.5" frame size, but you certainly can get tophats in that size and with a little gaff or blacktack they become color extenders.

A Source 4 PAR lamped at 575 puts out a good bit of light. I have never directly compared or tested, but I would think you get into competing with your 1Kw PAR64s. Probably not the same with the PARnel with all the extra glass.

 

[NickVon]

oooooookay. So I guess i'm confused. I thought the PARnel was the ETC "PAR" time to do some more searching.

So. It looks like the difference is the PARnel has a funky lens, different then the standard WFL MFL NSP etc of the lens that come with the ETC PAR. I think i was talking about the ETC PAR the entire time and just had them misnamed in my brain.

We use Roscolux and Lee color filters mostly, is there another brand that maybe lasts a little better for deep colors?

the Apollo Gel Shield you mentioned isn't badly priced for a small/medium venue that we are. for only looking to do this with 12 difficult to get to PAR washes the cost isn't to bad. I can see how putting that 18$ accessory on every light in a large house though could get rough .

More Feed back is welcome. Thank you.

 

[xander]

oooooookay. So I guess i'm confused. I thought the PARnel was the ETC "PAR" time to do some more searching.

Oh. No. ETC makes a "PAR" unit. It takes the HPL lamp and has easily swappable lenses that run the whole gamut from VN to XWFL. A 575w ETC PAR roughly has the light output of a 1kw PAR. The PARNel is something completely different that the R&D guys/gals over at ETC came up with.

-Tim

 

[icewolf08]

The Source 4 PAR:

Comes in two flavors, the EA (Enhanced Aluminum) and the MCM (Metal Cold Mirror). These refer to the reflectors. The MCM would help preserve gel life by pulling more heat out of the beam, but it is limited to only using a 575W lamp. Both support changeable lenses that will look like familiar PAR lenses. ETC offers VNSP through XWFL.

The PARnel:

Comes only with an EA reflector. There is really no fixture this compares to. As I mentioned, some people love them, some hate them. There isn't much middle ground.

 

[SteveB]

In my experience a 575w S4 Par is not quite as punchy as a PAR64 with a 1kw lamp, which is why I use the EA version of the S4 Par and lamp at 750. I also have a dozen ParNels, also at 750, and need 3" color frame extenders (City Theatrical version) on all my S4 Pars and ParNels

The ParNel also does not have the elongated beam of an S4 Par or PAR64 in the medium and wide spreads, thus I don't use ParNels for back lighting. In general I like the ParNel but it does have a more limited coverage

Thus I'd demo both before you decide

 

[Footer]

The ParNel also does not have the elongated beam of an S4 Par or PAR64 in the medium and wide spreads, thus I don't use ParNels for back lighting. In general I like the ParNel but it does have a more limited coverage

Thus I'd demo both before you decide

The Parnel got its bad name because the first generation had issues. When you flooded these lights, you got a dark center. They fixed this in the later generations. The Parnel is a decent unit. I am wondering now that the ETC fresnel is out... how much longer the parnel is going to be around.

 

[LekoBoy]

The Parnel got its bad name because the first generation had issues. When you flooded these lights, you got a dark center. ...

And here I thought ETC was merely imitating what happens with most Fresnels. If you look at the Flood Focus Candela Plot on the cut sheet for the Source Four Fresnel, you'll see a dip in the center on the X-axis; the same on the ParNel cut sheet. I've had people argue and say that my eye is playing tricks on me; as a Fresnel goes from spot to flood the center appears dimmer.

 

[bdkdesigns]

It's always interesting to see how different people use instruments....I love the PARNel as direct backlight and the Par as Diagonal Backlighting.

All of my Source 4 Pars are lamped at 575w and are of the EA variety. I recently designed a show where I used R382 Congo Blue in them. These instruments were up at full for a constant hour during the show. After it's 2 week run + tech, I simply have some slightly shrunken cuts of gel with no discoloration or burns. Only one out of eight started to burn through.

Two years ago I had a board op that didn't go to cue 0 before shutting down the console. That venue had the MCM version of the ETC Pars. This was the one show that utilized dimmer doubling that I talked about in another thread. Once the racks figured out that the signal was lost, everything but the B sides of what was up shut down. Two instruments lamped at 550w/77v, ironically in R382 as well, remained on the entire night until I came in the next morning. I thought for sure that those cuts of gel were toast but they still looked freshly cut.

Since those were MCM fixtures, I've never lamped up to 750w as their max rating is 575w. If you think 575w is all you will ever need, I think it is worth it to bump up to the MCM version personally. I never had a single gel burn out on me in the MCM version of the ETC Par no matter how saturated it was.

The PARNell on the other hand, even when at 575w, it kills deep gel when flooded. I fully recommend color extenders when using saturated colors with that fixture. But count me into the crowd that loves them. Just as described, don't look at it as a replacement for either a PAR or Fresnel but rather it's own unique range.

 

[LXPlot]

I love the ETC PAR, it makes great back lighting (especially coming from an angle), is incredibly versatile, and puts out a lot of light at a lot less power than any fresnels or PARs you might find. Also, HPL575s seem to be considerably cheaper than normal PAR lamps, especially if you're using them in Source Four profile spots as well. I believe your also getting a benefit with the MCM version (I don't know the exact specs of each) in that less heat goes out the front, and therefore, your gels should last much longer.

I love these guys, but, once again, I'm far from an expert by any means.

 

[shiben]

I agree that PARNells are best used in direct backlight situations. Then fill in with PARs for pipe ends or whatever else tyou need to do. One application that worked better than I thought it would was a PAR EA on a boom for sidelight. Anyhow I digress. S4 EAs work great at 575 with even deep colors, but you do need to keep an eye on them. 750s fry that stuff like its their job, but I have always gotten at least one show out of the gel... PARNels, only used them in one offs with scrollers and as blinders, but they kicked rear for that application.

 

[SteveB]

I should amend my statement and clarify why "I" don't use ParNels as backlights, which is simply as they don't have the coverage of a wide flood S4 Par. This may or not be an issue for folks, but is in my space as the ParNels can't do a long side in US/DS orientation and allow 3 pipes of 4 units per pipe, to adequately cover a 33ft deep space. I tried it and really wanted the ParNels to work, as I really like the 12 I have, but didn't get the coverage I needed. And I did want this option as I love having zoom type fixtures for their flexibility. I actually had a Spanish dance company request ParNels. some of which I had to rent and they were very difficult to find. The LD then discovered what I had, that they don't spread wide enough as compared to a regular Par.

 

[NickVon]

Thank you for all the Feedback and input.

I think i'll be putting PARnels on the backburner for now, and look at what at the S4 PAR.

I'll need to think on the EA vs MCM series i suppose. as of now i stock mosly all 575, except for a couple 750 I keep on hand for our two fixtures with I-Cue unites in them.

It's not to terrible replacing gels, as they instruments are all reachable in a genie lift and swappable with in about an hour. It's getting the lift out to do it every couple of weeks that i want to avoid. Usually the one off rentals will use our Rep plot and only our multi weekend stuff will have the time to tweak focus/ hang/ and re-gel the plot.

I currently only use 1k Par lamps in the WFL variety. As most of you seem to indicated that the S4 tech that a 575 will still give me a close output to the 1k Pars. Looks like maybe for my Corner wash unites the EA with 750's might be best and invest in some gel extenders or the Apollo product suggested earlier in the thread.

You all have given me great thoughts, and more questions to now think about

 

[derekleffew]

Suggestions:
1. Go with the EA over the MCM version; the option for the extra intensity of the 750W outweighs the color life savings.
2. I haven't found the 750W lamp to burn color significantly faster than the 575W, but...
3. The WFL lens burns color the fastest (haven't noticed a problem with the XWFL).
4. A color extender, either City Theatrical's or mine Building Your Own Color Extender.pdf plus heat shield will extend color life dramatically with either lamp.

 

[xander]

3. The WFL lens burns color the fastest (haven't noticed a problem with the XWFL).

Why do you think this is? That doesn't really make sense to me intuitively.

EDIT: My intuition being that the wider beam spreads the light energy out more, meaning the heat is more evenly distributed across the whole gel, while a narrow beam concentrates more heat at the center of the gel. However, on second thought, maybe the wide lens is thicker? Trapping more heat inside the instrument? Or maybe I am just completely wrong on everything.

 

[derekleffew]

Why do you think this is? That doesn't really make sense to me intuitively. ...

It never made sense to me either, until JD explained it (and I can't find his post)*, so paraphrasing, "Each facet of the MFL and WFL lens acts acts a prism or independent lens, concentrating the light energy on the color." This is why you can often see the pattern of the lens on the faded color.

*EDIT: Found it!:

As odd as it seams, the VNSP (and even ACL's) actually produce the most even output across the surface of the lamp. This is due to the fact that the lamp is working more like a beam projector, using mainly the reflector to direct light. (Of course beam projectors have the lamp front blocked and pars don't.) The wider floods use a lens much like a headlight. The high refraction ridges disperse the light, but also serve like magnifying lenses (at close range) and produce hot spots on the gel. Although there are some exceptions, I must admit that I observed the same lifespan issues when using the large par based shows popular back in the 80's.

Also non-intuitive: Fresnels burn color more at flood focus than at spot focus, even though "spot" is brighter. And it's not really about the lamp being closer to the lens in "flood" focus. Since you probably have it handy, look at the "Lumens per watt" listing on the PARNel spec sheet.pdf: Spot is 12.2. Flood is 14.1. Not as dramatic as the Source Four Fresnel.pdf (Spot Focus=5.3; Medium Focus=9.9; Flood Focus=14.3), but you get the idea.