Exploding Chandelier over Audience

[mikewarner]

Ok,

I have a pretty cool idea for an effect I'm hoping to put into our next show.
Tell me if this is going to far:
The idea is to have a chandelier above the audiences head explode amidst various flashes and sparks. Breakaway glass would be used in the chandelier and fall down onto the audience members.

Do you think having shards of breakaway glass fall onto the audience would be irresponsible and/or dangerous?
Putting aside petty health and safety rules, would there be a significant risk of injury?

Give me your thoughts!

Thanks,

Mike

 

[Amiers]

Well if you give everyone safety glasses and ponchos and make them sign a waiver sure. I will let the technical people give the more valid reason why not to.

 

[techieman33]

This is incredibly stupid. People will get hurt. It doesn't matter what it is, something falling what will probably be 20+ feet will do damage. People will have cuts and bumps on the tops of their heads. Some will look up when the hear the explosion and people will get the glass in their eyes. Some of the glass or other debris could even be hot and cause burns or set someones hair or clothing on fire. These are just a few of the things that could happen. No AHJ would ever sign off on you doing something like this even with signed waivers.

 

[mikewarner]

Hmmm, as Amiers suggested, I could give everyone safety goggles and ponchos, and to be extra safe maybe coat their faces in fire-retardant gel.

 

[sk8rsdad]

 

[MNicolai]

I agree with you in that it's an interesting idea, and if it was a Gallagher or GWAR-type show where people were expecting and prepared to get messy, it'd be a little more practical with some tweaking.

I'd spring for Mylar confetti instead of breakaway glass. Breakaway glass, aside from the risk that the shards will either 1) be so large that they'll hurt raining down from a distance or 2) so fine that they can get into the eyes of audience members inevitably staring directly upward at the effect, is also a pain to set a rig up for that is suspended above an audience and cued to break when triggered.

Of course, any effect of this nature needs a caution to the audience before the show, right along with the warning of strobe/flash effects. For the same reason you'd warn the audience if you had gun-shot type effects (via sound FX or via a functional prop), you'd want your audience prepared for this effect. You don't want to deal with a panicked audience, especially if there are small children present that may begin crying.

Depending on the room and if house management will let you blow off some confetti cannons, you could make some interesting effects with a nice reflective Mylar-confetti and some strobes from different angles and of different shades of white/amber. Could make for quite the convincing spectacle if you do it right.

By the way, if you were wondering what should've been the red flag to you in your idea as you have proposed it, it should've been where you said this:

Putting aside petty health and safety rules...

 

[Edrick]

Break away glass is great but it's still dangerous it's made to be used in controlled situations with trained people. If you've ever seen behind the scenes how we do it in film it still can hurt someone, get in their eye etc

 

[mikewarner]

I agree with you in that it's an interesting idea, and if it was a Gallagher or GWAR-type show where people were expecting and prepared to get messy, it'd be a little more practical with some tweaking.

I'd spring for Mylar confetti instead of breakaway glass. Breakaway glass, aside from the risk that the shards will either 1) be so large that they'll hurt raining down from a distance or 2) so fine that they can get into the eyes of audience members inevitably staring directly upward at the effect, is also a pain to set a rig up for that is suspended above an audience and cued to break when triggered.

Of course, any effect of this nature needs a caution to the audience before the show, right along with the warning of strobe/flash effects. For the same reason you'd warn the audience if you had gun-shot type effects (via sound FX or via a functional prop), you'd want your audience prepared for this effect. You don't want to deal with a panicked audience, especially if there are small children present that may begin crying.

Depending on the room and if house management will let you blow off some confetti cannons, you could make some interesting effects with a nice reflective Mylar-confetti and some strobes from different angles and of different shades of white/amber. Could make for quite the convincing spectacle if you do it right.

By the way, if you were wondering what should've been the red flag to you in your idea as you have proposed it, it should've been where you said this:

Hi MNicolai,

Thanks for your reply!

I did think that perhaps using some confetti would be a good alternative to breakaway glass. It's just that nothing's more dramatic than having shards of glass plummeting down onto the unsuspecting audience; but oh well, I guess I'll have to let this one go.

I would still like to have some pyro (sparks and flashes) fitted in the chandelier. Would that be ok in terms of safety?; I can't imagine why not.
Do you know of any good pyro stock for an effect like this. Le Maitre and the likes don't seem to have what I'm looking for.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[LavaASU]

Hi MNicolai,

Thanks for your reply!

I did think that perhaps using some confetti would be a good alternative to breakaway glass. It's just that nothing's more dramatic than having shards of glass plummeting down onto the unsuspecting audience; but oh well, I guess I'll have to let this one go.

I would still like to have some pyro (sparks and flashes) fitted in the chandelier. Would that be ok in terms of safety?; I can't imagine why not.
Do you know of any good pyro stock for an effect like this. Le Maitre and the likes don't seem to have what I'm looking for.

Thanks,

Mike

You need a real pyrotechnician for that. Get one. Though in most cases launching any pyro at or over the audience is a no go. Some amount of risk to performers can be deemed show necessary, however you can't risk hurting the audience.

 

[MNicolai]

It's just that nothing's more dramatic than having shards of glass plummeting down onto the unsuspecting audience; but oh well, I guess I'll have to let this one go.

That's a very cavalier attitude you're wielding towards the safety of your audience and their emotional and physical comfort during your event. Please, for the sake of everyone involved, check that at the door.

No pyro, no shards -- be they glass, plastic, or otherwise.

 

[mikewarner]

That's a very cavalier attitude you're wielding towards the safety of your audience and their emotional and physical comfort during your event. Please, for the sake of everyone involved, check that at the door.

No pyro, no shards -- be they glass, plastic, or otherwise.

I should probably say that I'm being deliberately provocative. I enjoy stirring the pot from time to time. Of course, the safety of my audience is of the utmost importance to me.

Although, I don't think using some small spark pyro should be too dangerous, especially when you take into account the chandeliers distance from the audience.

 

[josh88]

Although, I don't think using some small spark pyro should be too dangerous, especially when you take into account the chandeliers distance from the audience.

The level of danger may be low, as long as a licensed pyro sets it up and gives everything the ok. Safety, liability, and common sense.


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[MNicolai]

Even if a licensed pyrotechnician set it up, AHJ wouldn't sign off.

And even if AHJ signed off, which they wouldn't, you still have to realize that audience members do not want to sit below anything that's shooting sparks.

The moment those audience members look up and see sparks, they'll likely -- and rightfully -- be more concerned about self-preservation than watching the performance. The effect would possibly go as far as to counteract your intentions, by drawing the audience's attention far away from the performance so much so that they'd be so freaked out about the effect that just happened over their heads that they've completely fallen out of the dramatic flow of the performance.

 

[venuetech]

inducing panic is not recommended.

 

[flyweed]

I am a pyrotechnician, and even at "proximate audience" safe distances, I wouldn't attempt pyro over an audiences head. I have done MANY airbursts over actors heads, but they knew and were well rehearsed as to what was happening and when, and such. I'd say if you want a dramatic air effect like this happen, you hang the chandelier over your apron or orchestra pit area (if there is no pit band) and then you could have some pyro rigged up on it, as well as sugar glass that would fall to the stage floor. AGAIN, as long as it's a safe distance away from the audience. They'll see and get the effect, and still not be in harms way.

 

[cdub260]

Even seeing that the original post is from November of last year, I'm going to chime in on this discussion anyway.

An alternative to pyro for the described effect would be to run a few strings of Flashrope in the chandelier. It's fairly inexpensive and can be used to create the illusion of overhaed explosions when combined with a sound effect. We used this method a few years back at the Pageant to create a fireworks effect. Many in the audience thought we were using real firecrackers.

 

[MichaelPHS]

Also gonna add my 1.22pence here (assuming I have my conversion rates correct that is 2 cents). Over the audience, only things that should ever fall is either water or confetti (with warnings) unless EVERY possible problem can be ironed out. In terms of pyro above the audience, most I'd do, and even then reluctant to do so, would be a few smoke flashes. You may have meant it jokingly, but as sarcasm can't be conveyed that well online, I have to agree with MNicolai and say you did come across very VERY un-caring about audince safety, especially with the "Putting aside petty health and safety rules" remark. Annoying as they may be, these rules are there for a reason, and even though it may look awesome (hell if you REALLY want to see the effect set it up and do it AFTER the run has finished but before your get out) but might just not be safe to do so

 

[Les]

There are a few types of pyro that can be used over an audience, but it is very subjective and case specific. You usually need to have the height of an arena working in your favor and you still need the AHJ green-light (they have the final word, always). Even still, you can't 'shoot' anything with a projectile (comet, etc). Definitely one of those things where you must hire a professional.

No need to warn audiences about confetti (at least not that I've ever heard of). Plus, it spoils the surprise.