Express 48/96

[MillburyAuditorium]

I swear I posted this but I guess I didn't, ha ha, guess I really do eat and sleep theater.


Anyways,

Well, After thinking, I realized that the Element does not have a 96 channel model. And I am not going through the hell of having 69 channels on a 48 channel board again X_X
So I have looked at different boards and decided the ETC Express 48/96 looks like a good choice, nothing fancy, but we are nothing fancy Simple looking, ETC control setup which will take some getting used to anyways, has a monitor which is godly to us, internet for constant updates, desk lamp outlets, keyboard and mouse input, as well as the ETC track pad.
I also love how each channel has a bump button.
And goodbye black out switch, hello button

If there is any other suggestions for different boards, I know the Express is a little older.

If you are going to suggest a different board, we are looking for a display to make it more user friendly to our new techies, we need a 96 channel, we dont use two scene, and we pretty much do everything manualy, but have a Que for a nice houselight fade up and down.
Submaster ammount doesnt matter, we dont use many anyways.

Thanks~
Main reason for posting is comments on the Express 96.

 

[Wolf]

I can understand you wanting to have control over every channel with a slider but if you wont to continue in lighting wither it be theatre or music you should really get used to using cues particularly in theatre. Yes there will be the shows that are one offs where you don't create cues and do everything on the fly, but for that I would want submasters so I don't see why you wouldn't care about the amount of subs. If you can afford the Element I would get that, but if you can't, go with the Express but try to use the channel sliders less and less.

 

[marshmolly123]

I can understand you wanting to have control over every channel with a slider but if you wont to continue in lighting wither it be theatre or music you should really get used to using cues particularly in theatre.

The channel sliders are great for programming cues, though. They're a little quicker than typing in each channel.

One word of advice though: Don't go for the Express if you use intelligent fixtures. It's a difficult board with which to use them.

 

[erosing]

If you cannot afford an Ion, the 48/96 is a solid board, I used one for 4 years, and again just recently. Programming on it is a sinch, basic operation doesn't take more than a few minutes.

As marshmolly said, if you use moving fixtures, you'd be better off with something else, but as someone who has run VL 1K's off of a 48/96, it isn't impossible, but I don't ever want to do it again.

The only trouble with the 48/96 is board ops that like to hit both [go] buttons...

 

[starksk]

... I realized that the Element does not have a 96 channel model. And I am not going through the hell of having 69 channels on a 48 channel board again ...
So I have looked at different boards and decided the ETC Express 48/96 looks like a good choice, nothing fancy, but we are nothing fancy Simple looking, ETC control setup which will take some getting used to anyways, has a monitor which is godly to us, internet for constant updates, desk lamp outlets, keyboard and mouse input, as well as the ETC track pad.
I also love how each channel has a bump button.
And goodbye black out switch, hello button

If I can jump in here and correct a few things so you don't feel mislead about the abilities of each console.

The Express line does not support a keyboard nor a mouse. The ethernet port on the console is for connection to a ETCNet1 device such as a Remote Interface Unit or a Remote Video Interface as well as ETCNet2 nodes running in Net1 mode. It does not connect to the internet (nor should any lighting console, IMO) for updates.

The Element has options for 40 or 60 physical faders, each with a bump button. On each version however, there is a selector switch in the middle to change pages of faders so you will have 120 channel faders in total (on the 60 channel model, the bottom 20 faders are always submasters).

I will leave the opinions of running each console to others...

 

[derekleffew]

...Submaster ammount doesnt matter, we dont use many anyways. ...

Should you wish to pursue lighting beyond your current situation, I'd rethink that.

The channel sliders are great for programming cues, though. They're a little quicker than typing in each channel. ...

Really? I can type [CH] 1 [>] 10 [@] 50 faster than you can get Channel Fader #1 to 55, oops, 47, no 52, no 49, 50, there, 50!, let alone the other 9.
Furthermore, except on Element, HTP channel handles are worthless when editing a cue and a value needs to be lowered.

If I had an Element, it would never be in anything other than submaster mode--there's just no need for individual channel faders. How many boards other than entry-level Expresses, 300s, and Innovators have channel faders? Zero. Think there's a good reason for that?

 

[photoatdv]

Channel sliders are only useful if you don't have enough subs for me anyways...

I'd much prefer to keep each dimmer on a channel, and group them on subs... then when you need to change something you don't have to redo half the show...

 

[erosing]

I like subs, don't get me wrong, but does no one have love for groups? I vastly prefer groups to subs, no paging.

 

[Footer]

I like subs, don't get me wrong, but does no one have love for groups? I vastly prefer groups to subs, no paging.

And you can lower a value...

Learn to use the keypad. We left the world of 2,3,4,5... scene presets 25 years ago for a reason.

If you want handles, record it to a sub. IMO there are only two express consoles that are worth buying, the 125 and the 250. The 72/144 and 48/96 are a waste of space.

 

[sstolnack]

Like everyone else says... Cues are benificial, and you will need to know them if you want to work in other theatres. My theatre has Emphasis, with an Express 48/96 board. That does include a computer, which can have internet I believe, maybe that's what you were thinking of.
And yes, I do love groups... I never gave them any thought until I was ALD for a LD that used them, and I saw the brilliance of them. I'm working on programming lots of useful groups, but so far the most useful thing is having my cyc lights grouped by color. Much easier, and you can use update instead of recording, like you have to with subs.

 

[marshmolly123]

The only trouble with the 48/96 is board ops that like to hit both [go] buttons...

Arez, I totally understand what you're saying. Or I'll be running cues on one slider and accidentally hit GO on the other slider. Easily one of the most annoying things about the board.

The Express line does not support a keyboard nor a mouse. The ethernet port on the console is for connection to a ETCNet1 device such as a Remote Interface Unit or a Remote Video Interface as well as ETCNet2 nodes running in Net1 mode. It does not connect to the internet (nor should any lighting console, IMO) for updates.

Perhaps he means he has a laptop with the offline editor and an Internet connection?

Really? I can type [CH] 1 [>] 10 [@] 50 faster than you can get Channel Fader #1 to 55, oops, 47, no 52, no 49, 50, there, 50!, let alone the other 9.

I guess I should have phrased that differently -- they're good for sketching out cues quickly. I usually can figure out the approximate levels, and then just tweak them with the keypad.

 

[SteveB]

Ummm Folks, the Express isn't manufactured anymore.

The ETC options for new consoles are the Smartfade line, The Eos line with assorted Elements, Ions and Eos, as well as the Congo and Congo Jr. series.

The OP might readily purchase a used Express - ETC Express 48/96 DMX Lighting Console Control Board - eBay (item 330384122181 end time Jan-04-10 15:29:01 PST)

As to the argument manual vs. keypad ?. Use only subs or keep channel faders ? - BORING !. We've argued this endlessly and I'm not even going to comment. It's all personal choice and nobody's method is better then anyone elses as every ones situation is different.

SB

 

[Tracyu]

Take a look at Zero 88s Leap Frog 96. You get 96 channel sliders, 30 subs X 20 pages, lots of groups, moving lights package with a library of over 2000 fixtures, supports usb keyboard, mouse and touch screen support. They also keep a pretty active and free software update program. You can check it out here.
Leap Frog

 

[MillburyAuditorium]

Yes, we're aware its discontinued

And I didn't realize there was no mouse or keyboard connection (How do you label things in the display without them BTW?)

And I may of worded things wrong.
We do use sub masters of course, just, I don't care about having 10 pages of 20 subs like some boards We have all conventional lighting, so that decreases needs for subs a bit too. And this year we are probably using the most we ever have, were doing City of Angels, we need a 'real world' and 'fake world' And various single spots.

Anyways, I don't use channel sliders nearly at all during a performance other than for corrections or people being somewhere were they shouldn't be etc.
It's just a bit of a bother to not have enough channel sliders, having a 48 channel board and 65 dimmers in use.

Really any board with 96 physical (Theirs only 3 major kinds of board, 25, 48, and 96 right? If not, we really only need about 70) channel sliders and at least one monitor display would be great.



And there is a 96 channel Element? Can I have a link? for some reason I havnt seen one :/

 

[fredthe]

Really any board with 96 physical (Theirs only 3 major kinds of board, 25, 48, and 96 right? If not, we really only need about 70) channel sliders and at least one monitor display would be great.

Check out Strand's Preset Palette II 48/96. In addition to plenty of sliders, it has all the features (movers, color pickers, etc.) of "modern" theatrical boards.

Please, don't go with a board that will only control "conventional" lighting. You don't know what the school might get in the next 10 years, and it would be bad to be limited by a board with technology that's already 10+ years old.

Even conventional lighting can benefit form newer technology... one example is to gel your cyc lights Red/Green/Blue, then tell the board they're an RGB fixture. You then have color picker capability for your cyc!

-Fred

 

[SteveB]

Mibury wrote:

"And I didn't realize there was no mouse or keyboard connection (How do you label things in the display without them BTW?)"

With Express, you are forced to export the file to the off-line editor, do the labeling there and load back. Only Expression and Insight supported a mouse and keyboard directly. Have you considered an Insight III ? 108 faders, can be easily setup as 72 faders as channels 1-72, plus 36 subs on the lowest row. Takes a VGA monitor, supports keyboard and mouse.

ETC Insight 3 Studio Lighting Control Console - eBay (item 150397540541 end time Dec-23-09 12:58:10 PST)



"It's just a bit of a bother to not have enough channel sliders, having a 48 channel board and 65 dimmers in use. Really any board with 96 physical (Theirs only 3 major kinds of board, 25, 48, and 96 right? If not, we really only need about 70) channel sliders and at least one monitor display would be great. And there is a 96 channel Element? Can I have a link? for some reason I havnt seen one "


The Element series is limited to 60 handles

I would recommend as an Express 48/96 alternative, maybe looking at the Strand line, specifically the Preset Palette, with 48 channels in 2 scene or 96 as single, with 32 submasters. Only thing missing is that fabulous ETC tech support, which is worth the price of a console alone.

Or as a step up and something that gives you growth potential (and a warranty that e-bay doesn't offer much of), an Ion with fader wings appropriate to the system size. If you've got 65 dimmers and operate as 1:1 channel to dimmer, then 2 - 2x20 fader wings gets you 65 manual channels, configured as Ch 1 on Sub 1, etc... plus 15 extra faders as subs, channels, effects, cue lists, etc... TONS more versatile, especially as any fader can be configured anyway you want. And before you worry over the complexity of having to manually setup "Ch 1 to to Sub1" and "Sub 1 to Fader 1" it's actually an easy 2 step process of re-setting Channels to Subs 1:1 and Faders as Subs. Gets you text labeling on the sub LCD screens as well, so your channel labels travel with the show file.

I can't stress enough the "buy for the future" concept. Ion (and to an extent, the Strand Palette) gets you the latest software and hardware and will serve you better 10 years from now then any used Express, Expression or Insight. Ion particularly is amazing bang for the buck. I would guestimate that an Ion 1024 with 2-2x20 wings, plus 2 LCD monitors ($150 ea.) would run you less then $10,000 new, which is a huge bargain as compared to a used Insight at $7000. And FWIW, that e-bay used Express 48/86 @ $4500 is what I paid new for the same console in '99 !

Steve B.

 

[marshmolly123]

And I didn't realize there was no mouse or keyboard connection (How do you label things in the display without them BTW?)

You use the Expression Offline Editor on a PC, and then that transfers to the console when you load the show on the console.
http://www.etcconnect.com/product.overview.aspx?ID=20195

 

[icewolf08]

I was not going to chime in, but I think that I have to. As has been mentioned, Express is a discontinued product. While it WAS a great product, the emphasis is on WAS. It was one of the most prolific lighting controllers ever, if not the most. However, it is time to get over it! the current offerings from ETC and from Strand and the other manufacturers of theatre consoles are far superior to the Express.

While you might be able to pick one up used, and ETC will continue to support the product, you should not be buying a console that is over 10 years old! You would never buy a computer that was that old, why would you buy a computer based piece of hardware that is that old? It is an absolute waste of your school's money to purchase an outdated lighting console. It also will not help further your education or the education of your successors in the world of lighting. It is just a step in the wrong direction.

I totally understand the desire to have a lot of handles on your console, but in reality, you only want them because that is what you are used to. If you are bent on having them, there are console out there that can support lots of faders, the Strand Preset Palette for one, and the ETC Ion (via fader wings) for another. Even when I worked on Express(ion) consoles, the keypad was my friend. I know that people think that roughing in looks is faster with faders, but consider how much time you spend in front of a computer typing. You can enter channel levels really fast and it is a lot easier to manipulate channels on the keypad when the LD is calling out information to you rather than hunting for faders.

So, get over the Express already, it has been discontinued for a while now. Get over your insane number of faders or look at new generation consoles that have ridiculous numbers of faders. Move forward, don't step back, sideways or stay stagnant!

 

[Footer]

As much as I hate to say this...

You don't have to always have the greatest and newest.

I still think the express should be considered as an option for people on budgets. When I was in college we bought an ETC Idea on ebay for under a grand. It is still in the space and still going strong 6 years later. Its a 15+ year old console. For conventional fixtures only, it does what you need it to do.

Express console are going to start popping up left and right as theatres start replacing consoles. I know of at least 3 venues that have an expression line console sitting in a closet. I also know of at least one dealer that is letting people "trade in" their expression line console for an Ion. These things are going to be out there and you should be able to pick one up for under 2k. How many people are still using expression 2's? If you just running conventionals, there is no reason not to consider an express. If you can get one used for 1,500, you saving a ton of cash. You are buying an older piece of hardware that has the chance of breaking down more. Then again though, I have worked at least 20 different Expression consoles in the last 5 years and have never seen an issue.

Its the same argument of buying a used car. Yes, the new Toyota corollas are great. However, my 1999 Corrolla with 150k still gets me from point A to point B. It does the same function as the new one. It might not look as cool. It might not get the same gas milage or have the greatest car tech. However, it does work and its reliable. I bought it for an 1/8 of the price of a new one.

So, if you can pick up an express for under 2k, go for it. I know I would sell my express for that much (if the boss would give me another 3k to by a new console). My wife would do the same at her venue. It would not hurt to make a few phone calls to places that you know have them. Just like with buying a car, make sure to check under the hood of the console and give it a test drive before you buy. However, you could save a lot of cash and let you put money into a few extra fixtures or something like that.

Granted... if you ever think you are going to have movers, disregard....

 

[MillburyAuditorium]

fredthe,
Hey thats a great idea Wow, I could use a color pallet to make any color just like a real RGB light couldn't I? And since its a cyc it would fill the whole area.
About gelling cycs. Where do I find those kind of gels? Oh frames at least, these are the exact ones. Far Cyc > Fixtures > Theatrical Equipment > Commercial Lighting > All Leviton Products from Leviton Electrical and Electronic Products

Footer-
I agree

Steve-
Thanks, Might be annoying, but at least we could have them at all!
I'll look at the Insight 3 right now, thanks.