Firecracker's
- Thread startershakenblaken
- Start date
Unless you are a licensed pyrotechnician with FD approval don't even think about it.
DuckJordan
Touring IATSE Member
No matter how you ask the question, the answer remains the same.
I assume that you have already read the sticky thread on this topic? The show you reference was directly mentioned in that thread. Do not under any circumstances use real fireworks. You should consider a mixture of lighting and sound with the possibility of a visual like a tiny fogger (as long as you are able to use smoke/haze in your facility). Depending on your budget, you may consider a variety of fixtures with star gobos rapidly strobing or possibly using strings of LEDs of various colors that you can strobe.
What types of ideas do you have and what types of resources do you have available? This could help the community give you more recommendations.
CreativeSPFX
Member
ShakenBlaken- my company produces professional fireworks and pyrotechnic displays in Texas. Even as a licensed pyrotechnician, we would still never use regular firecrackers indoors. They're not meant to be used that way and would produce a lot of smoke. We have specialty pyrotechnics that are meant for indoor use.
If you're set on using pyrotechnics or fireworks in Texas, you'll need a State licensed Speical Effects Operator, $1M insurance coverage, and a permit from your local AHJ (Fire Marshal).
If you're set on using pyrotechnics or fireworks in Texas, you'll need a State licensed Speical Effects Operator, $1M insurance coverage, and a permit from your local AHJ (Fire Marshal).
shakenblaken
Member
We have a professor at my University that is a certified pyrotechnition as a staff member and she was going to teach a masterclass and we were going to use indoor pyrotechnics that the director wants, and we are waiting for a response from our fire marshall
CreativeSPFX
Member
Sounds like you have most of your bases covered. As long as she has an SEO license (and hopefully experience) then you should be good to go as soon as your Fire Marshal signs off on it. Which school do you attend?
We did the show a couple years ago. I used a variety of sound effects. On one of them the director wanted the audience to really jump because it was so loud. No problem just crank up the sub and choose an effect with some oomphf. You can't do that with real pyro. No smoke, no light, just the sound of the kid out back. It was perfect. Us technicians love to geek out on special effects but the truth is you don't have to have every level of realistic detail for an effect to work. Often the simplest solutions are far more effective because they are less distracting. If you use real firecrackers (besides the danger) you've got acrid smelling smoke in the theater annoying the audience. If you use effect smoke you've got lingering smoke to deal with for the next 10 minutes. The audience is there to imagine another world. A simple bang off stage is very effective and won't distract the audience from concentrating on the script.
Here's another example. Everyone always wants to come up with a fancy solution for the perfect off stage gunshot sound. The simple truth is I'm yet to find anything as good as a 5' long piece of 1x4 smacked into the floor. It's loud and the concussion is felt by the audience. After a lot of arguing with the director and students during "All My Sons", I held to my guns and insisted we use the board. When the Dad goes backstage and commits suicide you should have seen the way the audience jumped every night. It was a startling, powerful, and felt far more real than any recorded effect.
Keep it simple. Let the acting shine. Don't distract with effects.
Here's another example. Everyone always wants to come up with a fancy solution for the perfect off stage gunshot sound. The simple truth is I'm yet to find anything as good as a 5' long piece of 1x4 smacked into the floor. It's loud and the concussion is felt by the audience. After a lot of arguing with the director and students during "All My Sons", I held to my guns and insisted we use the board. When the Dad goes backstage and commits suicide you should have seen the way the audience jumped every night. It was a startling, powerful, and felt far more real than any recorded effect.
Keep it simple. Let the acting shine. Don't distract with effects.
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shiben
Well-Known Member
I actually prefer this to using live fire in the theater. Its loud and a great sound, and you dont have blank cartridges to deal with. Also, most people dont realize just how loud an actual gunshot is (having seen them on TV and the like where its a medium pop), and so when you bring in a specialty blank-firing pistol and fire it, the 160+db report is a bit more than people tend to want. Theres a reason on every show with guns they are wearing ear protection. This is actually one of my gripes with most explosive effects, real explosives and weapons are generally modified to make a weaponized version of something safer than the real thing, but they are still louder than is comfortable for the audience.
blackisthenewblack
Active Member
Can't you get, or have a certified person create lower loads, something like a 1/4 of the powder in a normal cartridge, so that it is quieter? (or so I saw in a video once)
I know folks that make their own shot and reuse shells. You could custom fill things. But the hassle of finding someone who knows how as well as buying the powder etc usually make simply buying blanks the easier option
... Also I have no idea how authorities would react to modifying something like that. I've never experienced it in a theatre setting.
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... Also I have no idea how authorities would react to modifying something like that. I've never experienced it in a theatre setting.
Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
shiben
Well-Known Member
Plenty of people do this, many consider it the most economical way to use higher caliber bullets while practicing (like a .45 or something). Having seen people do it, I cant imagine packing rounds is not terribly hard, and IIRC some states require a packing license to do it, but I would imagine its like a CCW class, you go, fill out some paperwork, get fingerprinted and you get a card. Either way, good idea to check with the authorities on this because it might be a very serious crime to be using this stuff yourself, perhaps even a federal offense, never pursued it so Im not familiar with how to do it. However, when you have the ability to buy blanks just for this purpose that fit in guns just for this purpose, there is no real reason to do it yourself. Remember, you cant just grab your personal carry weapon (or any other gun you have lying around) and pop blanks in there and be good to go. You need a special gun that is built specifically for theater/prop use, and IIRC most use a cartridge that is unique to blank-firing guns, so you cant put a bullet in there by mistake. They also have a solid piece of steel for the barrel, not a tube, or if there is a tube, its designed to provide a realistic muzzle blast and nothing else. That kind would be flat out a terrible idea to use, and they get really dirty really fast. I would imagine a gunsmith could build one properly out of whatever gun you cared to ruin, but why do that?
They make them with smaller loads. The reality is, however, that even a 1/4 load is an explosive going off, and its really, uncomfortably loud. Ideally, one would use a suppressor on a blank 1/4 load, but that would require an barrel for the gasses to go into, and thats a big no-no with a gun on stage. Keeping in mind the biggest noise issue with a firearm is the gasses expanding rapidly, so while a .22 is not as loud as a .44 magnum, but both are gonna be uncomfortably loud, especially in a confined space like a theater. On a show over the summer, they were using 8mm 1/2 load blanks in a 300ish seat theater, the result might be described as earth shattering. Even being ready for the shot with my hands over my ears, I jumped pretty high. The 1/4 load offstage was down to a level that was not painful, but IMO we might as well have slapped a board, what with all the PITA the Equity rules with guns and ammo and whatnot is. Also, coordinating a shot between the offstage shooter, the SM and the actor with the prop was a major hassle, a board would have been more forgiving, imo. That all said, There is a reason I wear plugs and muffs when on the range.
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Tell that to Brandon Lee.
shiben
Well-Known Member
I was referring to the noise issue, seeing as that was the majority of what I was discussion was about. And in fact Brandon Lee would not be dead had they been using proper weapons and not half-assed their dummy loads. The fact remains that the big issue in terms of noise in a theater with guns is they have mini explosions going off in them, and any explosion is pretty darn loud. The biggest issue with guns in real life is that they toss lead and copper into people at the speed of sound, and that gangsters tend to have the bigger ones. Also, FWIW, Lee would have been just as dead had it been a .223 or a .50 round. Both are gonna kill ya. However, my previous post is being edited for clarity.
