Fixing a new building issue

[jglodeklights]

So today I finally got to see the new PAC at a high school I've worked with in the past. They love the building, except for one major issue that was created by poor building information modeling. FOH has four positions for lighting: two catwalks and two tormentors. The catwalks are very safe as they are fully fenced in, and in photometrically ok positions. Unfortunately, one of the dead hung battens exclusively for the house lights is directly in the beam of any instrument hung on the catwalk closest to the stage that is focused more than 6 feet upstage of the edge of the apron. Why is this? The batten, if placed where it was originally drawn, interesects the catwalk so that it may support the last house right house light fixture. The construction crews solution was to lower it until it cleared teh catwalk. The theater teacher and support staff noticed this early on and have complained about it, only to be given the answer that the lift they need to fix it is no longer in the building.

I want to throw this out to you to see if you think my idea is a feasible fix. The current rigging is small (I hope properly rated) beam clamps with forged eyes from which the batten is suspended by 1/4" GAC. The beam clamps are on the lower portion of the roof structure I-beams. I believe that the batten could be cut just house left the catwalk after first having an additional rigging point placed house right of where the cut will be made in order to support this short length of pipe. There is an I-beam directly above that the beam clamp could be affixed to. An uprigger could then, after first harnessing up and following other safety precautions, go along to each beam and raise the beam clamp from the bottom of the I-beam to the top. This should get the 8" of additional height that will get the batten out of the way. My question is again, based on what I am describing does this seem feasible? I have thoughts going both ways, I just am hoping to formulate a solution the contractor can be convinced to complete before the year long period to resolve issues runs out in July.

 

[avkid]

Pictures would help greatly.

 

[jglodeklights]

Unfortunately I wasn't able to snap any and I won't be back around until at least June (their catwalks are friggin dark!)

 

[Morte615]

The biggest thing I would be worried about is the fact that in your scenario you have someone climbing on the rafters. Now if you have someone on staff that is certified to rig their own points and they have the correct PPE equipment then that is probably not a bad idea.
But to do it right then you have to have someone come in that can do all this (and is insured because I doubt your insurance would cover it) and at that point it's probably cheaper to just rent the lift again.

Have you considered if you can remove the offending pipe completely. Similar to what you suggested, tie a rope around each end of the pipe, remove the rigging holding the pipe and lower it down. All safely from the catwalk! Just make sure there is no one below you while doing this.

 

[jglodeklights]

In the scenario I suggested I would request that the construction firm bring in a certified rigger to complete the task. Seeing as the school district was told they needed to put forth money to install a catwalk their for the purpose of lighting upstage (the lighting consultant hired by the construction firm sent a plot showing this), I don't believe it should not be the school district's responsibility to pony up cash to fix it. That is another can of worms.

I don't think it advisable to remove the houselights completely, they do serve to light egress paths.

 

[Morte615]

Yeah of course if it's up to the construction firm I pretty much guarantee they will just bring in either scaffolding or a lift. Unless there is some other reason they can't do that.

I miss read the original post, I thought it was an unused pipe that was hung as an electric, I didn't realize it had house lights on it.

 

[jglodeklights]

Yes, all the house lights are on dead hung battens. The reason it has yet to be fixed is that there is not longer a lift, likely a Genie Boom, in the space. Or so the construction company says (the also seem to think that is the only way to go about rectifiying the issue). The district's scissor lift will definitely get high enough to reach the batten, but getting to the high rigging is difficult from below due to the position of the clouds that make it such an acoustically sound space. I can see why they wouldn't want to touch the low rigging; those clouds will be in the way to raise the batten and it has two cable clips and a suage securing the dead end.

 

[museav]

So today I finally got to see the new PAC at a high school I've worked with in the past. They love the building, except for one major issue that was created by poor building information modeling.

Don't get me going on this topic. My first few experiences with BIM suggest it is a nice theory but can easily have the opposite result from that intended. The primary issues I've seen are:

1. People start relying on the computer model for coordination instead of talking to one another. I had a recent project where well into the design process a proscenium suddenly appeared in the model. There was no discussion about adding it or the dimensions or anything related to it leading up to that.
2. The assumption seems to sometime be that if it fits in the model without conflicts then it is okay but the conflict analysis is often only checking for devices physically conflicting with one another and not addressing how the relationships may affect functionality. Related to the above example, the Architect saw no physical conflicts in what had been modeled to date when they added the proscenium so that became the sole basis for assuming whether it was appropriate or not. This also seems to lead to a lot of potential conflicts being decided by who models their stuff first rather than by discussing it before anyone does anything.
3. It is possible in a BIM model to have something fit without conflicts yet not be practical to build just as it may be required to modify a BIM model to reflect field changes and as-built conditions. The 'integrated' approach upon which BIM is predicated essentially conflicts with the approach developed over many years in the design and construction industries that designers are responsible for defining "design intent" and the Contractors responsible for the "means and methods" of construction. Because of potential liability issues that have already resulted in lawsuits and that may not be fully resolved for years to come, even if BIM is applied throughout a construction project Contractors will often create their own BIM models rather than using those created by the Architects and Engineers.

Why is this? The batten, if placed where it was originally drawn, interesects the catwalk so that it may support the last house right house light fixture. The construction crews solution was to lower it until it cleared teh catwalk. The theater teacher and support staff noticed this early on and have complained about it, only to be given the answer that the lift they need to fix it is no longer in the building.

In that case, it would be rather ironic if the person that approves their payment also wasn't around.

Seriously, if what is installed is not what was to be provided and any deviation from that was not properly approved then they should correct it. That is not always as easy to implement in practice as it is in theory but the risk with you doing anything about it is that a) it would likely be seen as you accepting their work and b) it would pretty much remove their responsibility and liability for anything associated and transfer that onto you.

FWIW, coordination of other ceiling elements with acoustical 'cloud' installation seems to be an increasingly common issue and the Contractors do not always seem to do a very good job of assessing what all is required or effective to do before installing the ceiling panels and coordinating all the related schedules.

 

[MPowers]

Two Quick thoughts here:
1. Why move the beam clamps? Just make up shorter lengths of GAC.
2. Call Limelight Stage Lighting & Rigging Systems for Theatre, Film/Video, Studio & Display: Limelight Productions
in Massachussets to come in and fix it. (if you do call, tell them who sent you).

Now, working from your description, I'm trying to picture a beam clamp I would approve useing that can be moved from the lower to the upper flange of an I-Beam. Did they use the "C" clamp type
Beam Clamps & C-Clamps - Clamps, Hangers & Supports | MSCDirect.com
If so, I would not accept the rigging as installed. Also, as stated, pics would be a big help. Is it possible for someone who is still there to get some halfway decent shots? If it's dark just open up the f stop all the way, use the fastest lens they can find, set slow exposure time if the camra has that option, then send to photo shop for cleaning up. Half the inspection photos I take look like a full stage black-out until I do a bit of tweaking.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

"My first few experiences with BIM suggest it is a nice theory but can easily have the opposite result from that intended."

Amen brother! BIM and CAD and especially REVIT have done more to lower the quality of the AE profession's work than any plague or genocide could ever have.

 

[jglodeklights]

1. I was trying to come up with the easiest solution because apparently getting things fixed has been liked pulling teeth out of untranquilized tigers.
2. The high school is actually right outside Philadelphia, PA, so if anyone I'd probably start with Sapsis.

Yes, it is a "C" clamp style beam clamp with a forged eye screwed into it (or so it appeared that way). I'll check with the guy who is the current technical supervisor to see if he can get some pics snapped. Will probably have to be with a "real" camera with an AF assist light on it as there is almost no light in the catwalks, which is another issue to me as I didn't see any form of work or safety light for when students and staff are working up there, including on the several steps up and down. I know it may not be required, but even the old building had plenty of work light installed in the ceiling for safety reasons.

 

[MPowers]

............high school is actually right outside Philadelphia, PA, so if anyone I'd probably start with Sapsis.................Yes, it is a "C" clamp style beam clamp ............

Your sig line says Rhode Island, which is why I suggested Limelight. If you're in Philly, Unka Bill is your absolute best of the best. If you call him, ask what he thinks about the "C" clamp style beam clamps! (I already know the answer to that!).

 

[jglodeklights]

I'm in RI, which is why this stuff hasn't been dealt with already. I'd have had Sapsis in there before they even opened the building!

 

[jglodeklights]

I just remembered something I thought...odd... when I looked at it. Rigging to the batten was accomplished with two cable clips(crosbies) and then a swage. I wasn't paying much attention to the top but I believe it was two suages.

 

[MPowers]

I just remembered something I thought...odd... when I looked at it. Rigging to the batten was accomplished with two cable clips(crosbies) and then a suage. I wasn't paying much attention to the top but I believe it was two suages.

Well, IF the pressed sleeves are done correctly, (I'm not holding my breath) it sure won't fail at the connections!.....But, if either of those observations is correct, it is a sure sign that whomever installed that batten is NOT a rigger and really doesn't know what the heck they're doing. And you can quote me on that if it helps! Hmmmm...I wonder if the clips are forged or hardware store?