Control/Dimming Hedge Hog 4 vs Avolites Titan Mobile vs Jands M3/S3

[Marshall Gwyn]

Hi,

I am new to the forum and looking forward to being interactive on here and hoping to get to know some of you.

I have been doing some research and am in the market for a new lighting console. Currently I am using an Ion for theater work and DasLight PS based controller for live music work. I must admit, I really love Das Light and how I can stack multiple cues and presets and blends them. Gives me endless possibilities to build scenes on the fly based off the music.

I will continue using DasLight but wish to purchase something a little higher end as well. My Considerations will be in the $4,000 to $10,000 range. I would like to by fairly new. What I have seen so far is:

HedgeHog 4 Console (Huge Pro, has built in CPU, no need for laptop and ArtNET)

NanoHog 4 Control Surface

Avolites Titan Mobile Control Surface (Requires CPU but significantly cheaper)

Jands M1/M3/S3 Control Surface (The S3 is a little pricey IMHO since it doesn't have a built in CPU for $10,000+)

Can anyone advise on a good investment? I am really leaning towards the HedgeHog4 based off the fact you can run all the cues and effects you want off cue faders and blend them to build scenes on the fly. I am fairly inexperienced with all of the console but learn quite easily. I definitely want a console with a great effects building engine.

I am not opposed to other solutions, such as Chamsys etc... Keep in mind, I would like to be able to cross rent this product to other AV companies and keep it a well known product.

Thanks for the support!

Marshall
Owner/Engineer
Creative Sound and Lighting

 

[LightingGuy89]

IMO The Hedgehog4N is the best and most inclusive to all of the options you've laid out. Make sure you purchase the N model though. This will allow connectivity to the larger and other Hog range of consoles. N means Network.

I use a Roadhog 3 Programming Wing, Midi controller for faders/playback and a second touchscreen laptop to run my shows with the Hog4 Software. And I have 8 universes of DMX with Artnet.

If you want to keep with a PC based system, then I would actually point you into the MA2 Command Wing (MSRP around $5k. 2 hard DMX outs and up to 4 via ArtNET/sACN) This is expandable with a masterwing or a faderwing or with any of the MA2 series full consoles.

I think in the US, Avo doesn't have quite the market share of ETC/Hog/MA, so being able to cross rent it out may be more challenging. (People on this board will protest this, I'm not knocking the console, just my 2cents)

Chamsys is similar to Hog in a lot of ways. One big benefit that has been talked about in the Hog world for ages now is Pixel Mapping and Media Server. The Chamsys already has these features and they are very easy to use. However, there are other reliable, low-cost ways to pixel map that I integrate via DMX mergers or additional control systems (MADRIX is my favorite for that).

-B

 

[Marshall Gwyn]

IMO The Hedgehog4N is the best and most inclusive to all of the options you've laid out. Make sure you purchase the N model though. This will allow connectivity to the larger and other Hog range of consoles. N means Network.

I use a Roadhog 3 Programming Wing, Midi controller for faders/playback and a second touchscreen laptop to run my shows with the Hog4 Software. And I have 8 universes of DMX with Artnet.

If you want to keep with a PC based system, then I would actually point you into the MA2 Command Wing (MSRP around $5k. 2 hard DMX outs and up to 4 via ArtNET/sACN) This is expandable with a masterwing or a faderwing or with any of the MA2 series full consoles.

I think in the US, Avo doesn't have quite the market share of ETC/Hog/MA, so being able to cross rent it out may be more challenging. (People on this board will protest this, I'm not knocking the console, just my 2cents)

Chamsys is similar to Hog in a lot of ways. One big benefit that has been talked about in the Hog world for ages now is Pixel Mapping and Media Server. The Chamsys already has these features and they are very easy to use. However, there are other reliable, low-cost ways to pixel map that I integrate via DMX mergers or additional control systems (MADRIX is my favorite for that).

-B

Thanks for the input! Madrix is some cool stuff! I did not realize that on the gMA on pc control surface, that is a reasonable price. Could you elaborate why to the gMA on PC is a good option? I have never worked with any gMA console... I like the concept of the HedgeHog4 for some strong reason, and honestly the last Hog I used was a HOG 1000.. I know, much older and different. Keep in mind my main goal here is a console with an incredible effects generator and on the fly playback. I agree on the Avolites console being sparce in our market. I would still like other peoples input on it if anyone could comment. Regarding Chamsys briefly on the PC, I like it's control screen, everything around the screen is like a giant softkey making it a flexible feeling console.

Thank you!

Marshall
Owner/Engineer
Creative Sound and Lighting

 

[techieman33]

The top end of your budget could get you a used pearl expert with titan.

 

[jamesh]

Hi Marshall,
We run the same MagicQ software across our console and PC software range, making the jump between a console or PC software straight forward.
Our consoles are all Linux based, but the PC software runs on Windows, Mac and Linux.

The PC Software is a free download and its outputs come fully unlocked, giving you 64 universes for output over network (artnet, ACN) without any restriction.
It also comes with inbuilt pixel mapper, media server control (supports CITP/MSEX) along with free Visualiser and Media Player inbuilt.

Might also be worth a look at the compact console range. the MQ60 runs 12 universes console (4 direct DMX, all 12 uni available over network via Artnet, ACN).
This has the usual inbuilt pixel mapper and remote control capabilities.
You can also use the free MagicVis or MagicHD software running on PC networked to the console for visualisation and a 8 layers of media playback.

 

[John Palmer]

Also look at the Martin M2Go. I have played with the MPC software, and I like it.
Now, if you want one console to rule them all, I like the ETC Cobalt. You could do a Cobalt Nomad with a USB MIDI controller to give you some faders. Or, you can look for a Congo Kid or Congo JR with playback wing running the Cobalt software.
The thing that I like about Cobalt is that you can busk a show and build theatre style shows just as easily and powerfully on the same platform.
John

 

[Judge]

I think that you have two clear choices here. If you want to be able to rent out the desk as well as use it yourself then it has to be a complete unit, not a control surface driven by a PC.
1. Hedgehog 4 - because its tidy and well known in the US, many people are familiar with the Hog range
2. ChamSys MQ70 - incredibly versatile compact console with capability to run any kind of show. MagicQ is gaining traction in the US as well. You could go for the MQ60 which is the same console minus the built in wireless and PoE network ports.
ChamSys has 12 universes and Hog has 6, so maybe a factor for you.
Both of these consoles have very small screens so personally I wouild get an add on screen to use with them, but they are ready to go out of the box and both come in south of $10k

Martin M2Go might be worth considering too. This is a complete but has no screen. I think the ChamSys and Hog would go out on hire the most though.
I have used MagicQ for years and really like it. Its easy enough to pick up and there is really nothing it will not do. I also am a big fan of the new Avolites kit and use a Titan Mobile for a lot of shows - however its not a complete desk and thats what people want to rent. Same goes for the MA wing.

 

[MikeJ]

True, a real desk is much easier to rent to others. You have to consider how much of you business is based on you personally using your equipment and how much will be a dry rental.
In my experience though, people will generally not want a "baby" console either, taking nothing smaller than a Roadhog, or a MA2 light for example.

I would also urge you to consider the MA2 Command wing(but I obviously feel that MA is the best platform out there). You do need a computer with a dedicated graphics card, and I would recommend a touch screen. ACT lighting recommends a specific AIO touch screen PC from Cybernet, it is kind of pricey, but it works and cuts down on clutter.
Worth noting, The wing also has a DMX IN connector that can be set as a third output.

Downsides to the MA command wing- Only 6 Executor faders, and 6 executor buttons. Unlike other systems though, these can really be any function that you want them to be.
The work around-Use another DMX console, or midi controller to get more faders and/or buttons if you want them. But this also adds more separate pieces to plug together, which is an annoyance with wing systems in general.

Command wings go for $4-5k lightly used.

The ChamSys probably does offer the most bang for you buck though, especially if having a real desk is a priority.