HELP: How to make a sunlight effect?

[Jojomonkeyking]

I'm currently the ALD at my undergraduate school and was presented with a problem that I was hoping to get some advice for

We have a box set with 3 tall windows in the back and we are hoping to get even shadows through them from behind, there is a backdrop behind the set and we have about 16' between the set and the backdrop.

Any suggestions or ideas?

 

[sk8rsdad]

This is a classic design issue, and might make a good QOTD some day. Rather than answer directly, here are a few questions to get you thinking about how to solve the problem.

• Do the actual and the apparent source of light have to be from the same instrument?
• What visual cues tell you where the light is coming from? Is it the shadows cast by the actors, the shadow cast by the window frame, or something else?
• Does the shadow cast by the window frame have to come from the actual window, or could a gobo be used?
• Would bright backlighting of the actors help convince the audience the light is coming from the window?

 

[mstaylor]

Another question is, does the location of the windows and the time of day in the scene call for the same shadows?

 

[Jojomonkeyking]

This is a classic design issue, and might make a good QOTD some day. Rather than answer directly, here are a few questions to get you thinking about how to solve the problem.

• Do the actual and the apparent source of light have to be from the same instrument?
• What visual cues tell you where the light is coming from? Is it the shadows cast by the actors, the shadow cast by the window frame, or something else?
• Does the shadow cast by the window frame have to come from the actual window, or could a gobo be used?
• Would bright backlighting of the actors help convince the audience the light is coming from the window?

I don't think it necessarily have to be from the same source but the windows have grills and whatnot in them so the shadows from that are very important to see on the floor.

We have balcony seating so they will definitely see it the shadows on the floor, both from the window parts and the actors.

The back lighting possibilities on the actors are important as well, but there is a ceiling and the walls are pretty tall so we have to usw the light through the window as key lighting for some scenes

 

[Jojomonkeyking]

Another question is, does the location of the windows and the time of day in the scene call for the same shadows?

I'm not exactly sure of your question but throughout the show the time of day changes from morning to afternoon to evening back to morning and the lighting through the window is important in each scene.

 

[shiben]

It sounds to me like you want multiple sources per window, actually. I would look at multiple angles, set an east and west, and choose an angle and color that makes sense for each time of day. Remember that the light does not just change color throughout the day, but also its angle and how harsh it appears to be.

 

[Jojomonkeyking]

It sounds to me like you want multiple sources per window, actually. I would look at multiple angles, set an east and west, and choose an angle and color that makes sense for each time of day. Remember that the light does not just change color throughout the day, but also its angle and how harsh it appears to be.

That makes sense, thank you!

Do you have any suggestions on how to do that once and I can just replicate it and change the location and color of the subsequent systems?

 

[DuckJordan]

That makes sense, thank you!

Do you have any suggestions on how to do that once and I can just replicate it and change the location and color of the subsequent systems?

The problem with replicating it is your likely going to need booms/pipes and the locations of which are going to be very set dependent. Its going to end up being something that would have to be custom done for each window.

 

[Jojomonkeyking]

The problem with replicating it is your likely going to need booms/pipes and the locations of which are going to be very set dependent. Its going to end up being something that would have to be custom done for each window.

We have some options for booms, what kind of instruments would you suggest?

 

[DuckJordan]

We have some options for booms, what kind of instruments would you suggest?

Personally I would use fresnels. They give the control I'd like, but still have the bleed off. But it's just personal preference really it may change based upon whats available and what actually fits in the space.

 

[shiben]

That makes sense, thank you!

Do you have any suggestions on how to do that once and I can just replicate it and change the location and color of the subsequent systems?

At the risk of designing your show for you, I would have a morning look on whatever the east side of the stage is by dropping a pipe from your most US LX pipe, down for an angle that looked to me like the sun in the morning some distance off to the "east" of the window, and use a gold color on that. Then for noon, I would have one more centered to the window at a higher angle, maybe dont pipe it down or color it, and then for evening I would do the same on the "west" side of the window, piped down to represent around the time I wanted it. I would use a more amber hue. Fresnels all. basically make the same rig for all the windows. For night time, A cyc thats blackish blue and maybe a fresnel with something like 1/8 Plusgreen at an angle to represent some external light source, like a street lamp. If you want moonlight, choose where the moon is, hang fresnels with a cool CTB or something in them at whatever angle the light should be coming from. Since this sounds like an important part of the story of the show, I would dedicate as many resources as a look like this will take, because from your description it sounds like the shadows, color and angle of the light not only set the show, they also tell a story. Its worth keeping in mind thats whats going on... If I were doing this, I would choose a room that had similar windows to the set (maybe a conference room or something), and go in there for an hour or two in the morning, midday and evening to night. THen you can look at what sunlight does in a similar situation, and make your light do that, or stylize your light to make it "more" like the sun than real life.

 

[icewolf08]

For the most part, unless the time of day is integral to the show, it probably will not matter what angles you use to shoot through your windows. You dont have to define an east and west for this effect to work. All you have to do is decide how you want the light to look on stage. For that matter, you might be able to use the same lights for "morning" and "evening" as the quality of light and relative angles are the same. You can also take advantage of amber shift in incandescent fixtures to tell some of the difference in time of day.

As far as unit choice, I would use an ERS rather than a fresnel or other wash fixture. Why? Control. If this is going behind a set and there is a backdrop US of the set then I would want as little spill as possible. I would cut the beam right in to the framing of the window. This will minimize any bounce onto whatever is US of the set.

For positioning, as I mentioned, unless t is integral to the plot or you really just want to do it, you could get away with hanging all your fixtures at the same elevation and just changing the SL/SR angle. This could save you from building booms and trying to mimic angles and stay out of sight lines.

This may be an effect that you have to play with a little nd make sure that you get the shadows that you want. Yu may find that you don't get as sharp an image as you might like in which case you may want to look into a template option.

 

[Meberle]

Oddly enough we had a similar issue pop up in the design for our most recent show. We ended up ordering custom gobos that were keystoned to adjust for angle of the instrument placement. Our reason for doing so is we had limited space behind the actual set that prevented us from placing the instruments in the ideal location.

Another option, if your not worrying about spill, is to use fresnels but take the lense out of them. This provides a strong single source that cast an excellent shadow.