Help with mystery vintage ~1960s Fresnel. Need to find inexpensive Barn Door.

[SteveF]

Hello all!

I joined this board mainly because I want to learn about this vintage Fresnel fixture I picked at a HAM fest for $12.00 I'm well educated with moving mirror, moving heads, and vintage disco lights but not as much when it comes to theater specific lights like this one. It came with a Chinese copy of an Altman clamp, a new safty cable, and the Fresnel fixture without a lamp. I bought it for the clamp and the cable but I always wanted to domesticate the Fresnel to use as an accent lamp in a room to light up a picture.

Recently I repainted and redecorated a room to look like a coffee shop / jazz club so I started working on this Fresnel. I took out the old socket and reflector and mounted a 120v 50w MR16 bulb in its place. I want to aim the light on a 3D metal wall decoration however the way it is now it hits you in the face when your trying to watch TV. I thought of getting barn doors for it so I can crop the light out of my face but I have no idea what Barn Door will fit this light. So far I've spent an additional 25.00 on this light. I'd like to repaint it too however I'm not sure what type of paint I should use on it. I'm mainly interested in learning about what modern Barn Doors will fit on this thing.

I reuploaded the photos using the forum's upload feature. They are attached below. The 6th photo shows a tape measure in front of the gel holder slots. Its roughly 8 inches.

 

[shiben]

Hello all!

I joined this board mainly because I want to learn about this vintage Fresnel fixture I picked at a HAM fest for $12.00 I'm well educated with moving mirror, moving heads, and vintage disco lights but not as much when it comes to theater specific lights like this one. It came with a Chinese copy of an Altman clamp, a new safty cable, and the Fresnel fixture without a lamp. I bought it for the clamp and the cable but I always wanted to domesticate the Fresnel to use as an accent lamp in a room to light up a picture.

Recently I repainted and redecorated a room to look like a coffee shop / jazz club so I started working on this Fresnel. I took out the old socket and reflector and mounted a 120v 50w MR16 bulb in its place. I want to aim the light on a 3D metal wall decoration however the way it is now it hits you in the face when your trying to watch TV. I thought of getting barn doors for it so I can crop the light out of my face but I have no idea what Barn Door will fit this light. So far I've spent an additional 25.00 on this light. I'd like to repaint it too however I'm not sure what type of paint I should use on it. I'm mainly interested in learning about what modern Barn Doors will fit on this thing.

Heres photos of it before I did anything to it:


[IMGL]http://www.niceboots.com/~1992/Fotos/Fresnel/Fresnel_01.jpg[/IMGL]
[IMGL]http://www.niceboots.com/~1992/Fotos/Fresnel/Fresnel_02.jpg[/IMGL]

And heres photos I took just now so that I could make this post here. You can see I replaced the old 1000w 220v socket with the MR16 socket. In the future I'll probably use an LED lamp when I can find a dimmable warm white one that is as bright as the 50w bulb:

[IMGL]http://www.niceboots.com/~1992/Fotos/Fresnel/Fresnel_03.jpg[/IMGL]
[IMGL]http://www.niceboots.com/~1992/Fotos/Fresnel/Fresnel_04.jpg[/IMGL]
[IMGL]http://www.niceboots.com/~1992/Fotos/Fresnel/Fresnel_05.jpg[/IMGL]
[IMGL]http://www.niceboots.com/~1992/Fotos/Fresnel/Fresnel_06.jpg[/IMGL]

I cant see your photos for some reason, but are you at all crafty? You could always make one yourself, really ought not to be too hard to make one, I would think... But check out City Theatrical and the like.

I found some cheapish ones on ebay, but without knowing how big your light is, I dont know if any would fit...

 

[SteveF]

I cant see your photos for some reason, but are you at all crafty? You could always make one yourself, really ought not to be too hard to make one, I would think... But check out City Theatrical and the like.

I found some cheapish ones on ebay, but without knowing how big your light is, I dont know if any would fit...

Yeah sorry about that, I noticed the photo links weren't working. I uploaded photos using the forum's uploader instead just now. I'm crafty but now so much with metal a part from being able to make simple hole based gobos for my MACs out of sheet aluminum, metal shears, and a drill index.

 

[JohnD]

Looks like an Altman 165Q to me.
Altman Lighting - Theatrical Fresnels - 65Q and 165Q
It takes standard 7.5 inch accesories.
Altman used to use that brown hammertone paint finish, I don't know if they still do.
I would think any high temp spray paint would work.
The Altman part no. for that barn door is 6-BD-4.
http://www.altmanltg.com/altman-theatrical-accessories/altman-fixture-accessories.pdf

 

[gafftaper]

Beware, unlike newer fixtures, there is a lot of wiggle room for barn doors to fall out of old fixtures like that. So be sure you are extra careful about safetying the barn doors to the fixture.

 

[Nelson]

<off topic>
Since you bought it at a ham fest, are you a ham? I'm w8nwo!
</off topic>

 

[SteveF]

Sorry for the belated reply, I lost my password.

Thanks for the help everyone, I really appreciate it. I'm surprised this is actually an Altman. The fixture came with an Altman like clamp but instead of the name Altman being molded into the clamp, it said "Japan" instead.

<off topic>
Since you bought it at a ham fest, are you a ham? I'm w8nwo!
</off topic>

No but my father was. He passed away this past August. The Ham Fest was in July and it was one of the last things I did with him so this fixture is special to me.

 

[ship]

Sorry for the belated reply, I lost my password.

Thanks for the help everyone, I really appreciate it. I'm surprised this is actually an Altman. The fixture came with an Altman like clamp but instead of the name Altman being molded into the clamp, it said "Japan" instead.
No but my father was. He passed away this past August. The Ham Fest was in July and it was one of the last things I did with him so this fixture is special to me.

Stuff associated with Dad' is special to all of us, you have worked on something good to keep and remember with. Me, I have my bench vise that I use almost every day amongst a few other tools.

Not sure or don't think it is a Altman as it would be #165. (I don't have an Altman #165 by the way.) I do have all three generations of Altman 65/Q and all of them have full gel frame assemblies. Also, the inner reflector assembly is not origional - it is most likely the Altman upgrade/replacement reflector assembly. Wiring on it is too modern also. Initial thoughts are the gizzards are altman and probably in good shape and even grounded - though where that ground wire goes given two conductor non-heat rated zip cord is currently feeding it... probably not grounded now. Gotta be grounded even if at 50 Watts the SPT seen is probably fine for heat given the wattage.

Still while the yoke knobs seem Altman, I'm thinking Century or Capitol for brand. I don't have one similar but thinking probably 50's in age for the shell. Sum of most of the other than obvious and easy to replace parts don't spell Altman, yet similar enough in construction to Altman. Century or Capitol not sure in not having this Fresnel but I think a good guess to start with in banking perhaps mostly on Capitol.

On your modification, great idea but I don't think you will be getting as much useful flood beam from it. Measure the center of the holes previously mounting the medium pre-focus lamp socket (P-28s) to the distance of the rear baffle / mounting plate on the reflector slide plate mount. Than measure the I would guess turn lock (GU-10) lamped filament center - given an approximation from a MR-16 reflector, to the back of that reflector plate now used as a mounting plate.

The filament of your upgraded lamp with socket will I believe measure a longer distance to this new base distance measurement.

Easy enough to correct for with some thought in "how can I pick up for that 1/2" difference?" Don't know exactually how much of a difference you have or even how much flood or accuracy you need in flooding properly. Yes you have a very correct concept, but I think your science of filament was located where to where it was designed to be is off a bit.

Cool thing and I agree that if you measure, you probably have a trade size 7.1/2" gel frame slot, and more or less normal barn door. Problem for you is it's finger feet and might have to bend down some barn door flanges to fit a finger frame often smaller thickness. Stock size though. If you got any gel frames with it, just measure their overall size or measure what fits into these clips and round down a bit into what size you need given tolerances.


P.S. Derek will probably chime in soon in his like my own hate of FEL lamps, his hate of this 90's eara China C-Clamp that should be thrown out. Seen a lot of them in the 90's and they were cheap - kind of like today's cheap China gear or later in the 90's mostly rigging gear was from China and you couldn't help it. Not a problem with that but hard to trace failed part to China in general for liability. Anyway, seen and used many of these sort of lacquer coated C-Clamps in the past with out a problem. Today... no. On the other hand finding a I think 50's light I think that has such a clamp fits with the date of the upgraded reflector assembly from Altman.

P.P.S Not form Altman. I think Century or Capitol and bank on Capitol. Inner assembly Altman upgrade as with perhaps some other parts such as yoke knobs are Altman but not an Altman fixture I think. Older but say in the 90's someone did a good job in fixing and making work. Hole patterns also don't line up in any way for what would be Altman. Don't have one but have my guesses as to maker and time period that I think close. It was older than you thought and probably well cared for.

 

[derekleffew]

...Not sure or don't think it is a Altman as it would be #165. ...Still while the yoke knobs seem Altman, I'm thinking Century or Capitol for brand. ... Sum of most of the other than obvious and easy to replace parts don't spell Altman, yet similar enough in construction to Altman. Century or Capitol not sure in not having this Fresnel but I think a good guess to start with in banking perhaps mostly on Capitol.
P.P.S Not form Altman. I think Century or Capitol and bank on Capitol. Inner assembly Altman upgrade as with perhaps some other parts such as yoke knobs are Altman but not an Altman fixture I think. Older but say in the 90's someone did a good job in fixing and making work. Hole patterns also don't line up in any way for what would be Altman. ...

I don't understand why you think it's not an Altman 165Q. It sure looks to me like it could be an earlier version of

Plus, I've never known anyone other than Altman to use the hammertone-brown finish. (MAYBE Century for a very brief time when they were LCA, but only on ERSs.)

P.S. Derek will probably chime in soon in his like my own hate of FEL lamps, his hate of this 90's eara China C-Clamp that should be thrown out. ...

Yep, I don't trust them. Even with a safety cable.

...I'd like to repaint it too however I'm not sure what type of paint I should use on it. ...

Bar-b-que (black) or automotive engine paint (lots o' colors), both suited for high heat applications.

 

[DuckJordan]

I know for a fact its an Altman, We had 30 of this same model fixture at my University. All with the same junk C-Clamp. (as well as asbestos whips, origionally, we changed them out for new whips but that's another post). Treated well it will last forever, Treated as a doorstop, it wont ever disappear.

 

[ship]

I know for a fact its an Altman, We had 30 of this same model fixture at my University. All with the same junk C-Clamp. (as well as asbestos whips, origionally, we changed them out for new whips but that's another post). Treated well it will last forever, Treated as a doorstop, it wont ever disappear.

I very much stand corrected, thank you Sirs! Now my hunt to get one starts.