Conventional Fixtures High School Spending

J

jlouisstahl

Member
Hello,
I've recently been given the task to research some lighting for my school. We're looking for something that accomplish good washes (zone/spot lighting not important with these) and not lose color value or intensity. Ideally it would be LED or something similar, but budget may restrict that.
If one were to spend $10,000 on new lights for these purposes, what should one consider purchasing?
Thanks for your help!
 
More data please. How large is the stage or area that you are lighting? Do you have a DMX connection where you propose to put the lights?

I calculated what it would take for our stage (30' W at the proscenium and about 24' deep with a 30' x 12' apron) - I came up with what I would prefer to have - that was about 18 instruments. So 18 instruments at $550 each = $9,900. Add more money for the DMX connectivity and I had about $12K. With a different size stage, YMMV.
 
JLNorthGA said:
More data please. How large is the stage or area that you are lighting? Do you have a DMX connection where you propose to put the lights?

I calculated what it would take for our stage (30' W at the proscenium and about 24' deep with a 30' x 12' apron) - I came up with what I would prefer to have - that was about 18 instruments. So 18 instruments at $550 each = $9,900. Add more money for the DMX connectivity and I had about $12K. With a different size stage, YMMV.
Click to expand...

Yes we have DMX ready to connect. an ETC network node on each electric plus some extras to be placed in places when needed. Lots of XLR. That's not an issue. the stage has a ~50' plaster line and is ~40' deep (measured from apron to where we would ordinarily stop).
 
What is your trim height for your overhead electrics? How many overhead electrics do you have? My thoughts are that a good full stage wash of LED's might not be quite attainable for that size of a stage at that budget. What is your current lighting instrument inventory? If you are looking to do a lot of theatre and traditional concerts (like most schools) LED's might not be the way to go. With the exception of the higher end LED's, LED fixtures in general are not as flattering on the human skin for general lighting. I just got done doing the first design in a new small theatre. They went with all LED instruments overhead (against the recommendation of myself and a few others who were asked to consult on the project). The decision did not yield great results, and they are now looking at installing dimmers overhead and purchasing some PAR cans to solve the issues.

~Dave
 
DaveySimps said:
What is your trim height for your overhead electrics? How many overhead electrics do you have? My thoughts are that a good full stage wash of LED's might not be quite attainable for that size of a stage at that budget. What is your current lighting instrument inventory? If you are looking to do a lot of theatre and traditional concerts (like most schools) LED's might not be the way to go. With the exception of the higher end LED's, LED fixtures in general are not as flattering on the human skin for general lighting. I just got done doing the first design in a new small theatre. They went with all LED instruments overhead (against the recommendation of myself and a few others who were asked to consult on the project). The decision did not yield great results, and they are now looking at installing dimmers overhead and purchasing some PAR cans to solve the issues.

~Dave
Click to expand...

That sounds like an unfortunate story.
Our basic inventory looks like this:
Source four ERS 86 (abundance of barrels up to 50 deg.)
Source four PAR 63 (abundance of lenses from VNSP to XLFL)
PAR 46 10
PAR 64 12
Single cell CYC 5
Three cell CYC 15
Scoop 8
LED Par 18
Studio spot 8
 
DaveySimps said:
What is your trim height for your overhead electrics? How many overhead electrics do you have? My thoughts are that a good full stage wash of LED's might not be quite attainable for that size of a stage at that budget. What is your current lighting instrument inventory? If you are looking to do a lot of theatre and traditional concerts (like most schools) LED's might not be the way to go. With the exception of the higher end LED's, LED fixtures in general are not as flattering on the human skin for general lighting. I just got done doing the first design in a new small theatre. They went with all LED instruments overhead (against the recommendation of myself and a few others who were asked to consult on the project). The decision did not yield great results, and they are now looking at installing dimmers overhead and purchasing some PAR cans to solve the issues.

~Dave
Click to expand...

Oh! and also the electrics (four of them) usually don't trim beneath 27'
 
DaveySimps said:
They went with all LED instruments overhead (against the recommendation of myself and a few others who were asked to consult on the project). The decision did not yield great results, and they are now looking at installing dimmers overhead and purchasing some PAR cans to solve the issues.

~Dave
Click to expand...

Can you describe your recommendation for the LED wash placement?

Thanks,
Rob
 
MarfaLights said:
Can you describe your recommendation for the LED wash placement?

Thanks,
Rob
Click to expand...

I am not certain what you are asking here, as it really depends on the set / venue, and all the other design components we run into as lighting designers. Just like any other instrument in a design, I look at the photometrics of the instrument, and use them where I think they will make the best impact based on the other elements of my deign situation.

Even if you can afford the higher end fixtures (ETC Desire series, et al.), I would still double hang my areas with a tungsten was fixture too. I would also invest in the diffusion lenses / filters available for your fixtures. They help in blending back light washes and eliminating hot spots. I just don't think the technology is there yet to totally replace conventional fixtures with LED's completely.

Based on the existing inventory listed, I would recommend supplementing the inventory with additional Source 4 Pars, or Par 64's.

I am still not clear on what the OP means by "loss of color value". No matter what fixture you use (LED, tungsten, etc.) you will have to deal with color value and perceived intensity loss as you change colors. Are you referring to what occurs as a saturate gel burns out? With 63 Source 4 pars, I would think you could have (easily) a 3 color overhead wash system based on the limited specs of the venue you listed. With another 17 - 20 Source 4 pars and 8-10 PAR 64's, you could probably get another 2 color washes, and have money left over (assuming you have the dimmer capacity). What is your end goal you are trying to reach that you currently are not getting out of the system? Perhaps it is late and I am just not understanding the situation clearly. You seem to have a decent inventory, especially for a school setting. 5 full stage back light washes would be a tremendous set up in this situation methinks.

~Dave
 
Les, I think you're right. And this is my fault but that inventory should also list 16 source four fresnels. We've been making good use of those, maybe more could help.
Dave, I think you're understanding me fine (better than most). When we got our newest addition to our inventory, 12 LED PARS, I wasn't brought in for research and someone who probably shouldn't have got us LEDs from "times square lighting", a dj-esk company I wouldn't have used for a theater our size. Nevertheless, we bought them and, aside from not having an instrument profile with eos, they simply don't read on stage, costume, or even white set. They get washed out easily and don't do much from a design point of view. But I'm getting off topic, these aren't my concern today, I'm trying to find fixtures with whom that won't happen again so we can have some semi-decent color capabilities.
 
Times Square has been around since the 1930s I wouldn't call them djesque but I also don't think I'd go to them to buy LEDs. I have to agree that you've got quite a bit of pars and fresnels maybe replacing the gel more often would keep the punch of color you want? LEDs are just another layer to supplement a system. I think the important stuff has been covered by les and Dave already


Via tapatalk
 
This new video from a major manufacturer seems pertinent.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQ08RCKeYZc

I can't say I agree that one should hang a solid-state luminaire next to every incandescent one, however.

jlouisstahl said:
... If one were to spend $10,000 on new lights for these purposes, what should one consider purchasing?
Click to expand...
One VLX Wash, perhaps?
 
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