Hooking up house lights to DMX

[cdub260]

Our houselights are permanently wired into a dimmer but it's been done cleverly so that they're switch controlled as well. There's a regular wall switch backstage, and then the control room has a "work mode" and "show mode" switch. In work mode, the house lights are controlled from the switch backstage (and there's one in the control room as well), in show mode they're controlled by the lighting desk. I have no idea how it is wired up, but it's a solution which works very well provided I remember not to turn the house light dimmer pack off (because then the cleaners can't do their job!).

What you're describing here is actually a relatively simple setup. You're switching back and forth between two different power sources via a relay switch. In my venue I could do this install for the cost of the parts, which without taking the time to look up, I would estimate to be around $500.00. That said, I am qualified to do the installation and therefore would not have to bring on an outside electrician. In the case of the OP's venue, installing a relay to switch between the dimming system and straight power could run reasonably close to that or into the several thousand dollars range, depending on how much additional wiring needs to be added to the building. If the electrician has to install all new conduit to accommodate the new wiring, it will cost a lot more than if he can run the new electrics in existing conduit. Additionally, the venue would be permanently dedicating a portion of it's dimming system exclusively to house lights. Regardless, the price tag should come in at far less than the installation of an architectural dimming system. However, it will lack the versatility of those systems.

 

[dmoes]

to do this on the cheep
How about a relay controlled bypass


You have a wall switch that controls a DPDT relay so that when energized the relay connects the houselights to power from the mains. when not energized the relay connects the lights to a dimmers output. this would eliminate any plugs and flex cords and so on and is simple to operate. no different to the user than a regular on off switch. When there is a rehearsal or some need to use the houselights without turning on the LX board they just turn on the switch to turn on the house and the relay bypasses the dimmers. To use lights during a show or when you want dmx control of the house lights then just have the switch off (not bypassed) the switch circuit could be a 3way so that the house can be turned on from more than one location. and since its only handling the control for a relay it will be low voltage and current.

the only downfall is you will need to protect the switches during a show to prevent someone turning on the house lights in error. If done properly a relay switchover like this is legal and is safe.

 

[dmoes]

Sorry cdub260 I wasnt stealling your Idea rather I must have been writing my reply when you posted

great minds think alike!

 

[cdub260]

Sorry cdub260 I wasnt stealling your Idea rather I must have been writing my reply when you posted

great minds think alike!

I like the diagram. It really simplifies the explanation.

 

[headcrab]

I think this violates the TOS. This thread has turned into a "how-to" about something electrical. What is there to prevent anyone from "hacking" something, doing it completely wrong, and causing a fire? I have no problem with doing things on the cheap, but when it comes to safety or energy sources, it must be done safely.

 

[DuckJordan]

I think this violates the TOS. This thread has turned into a "how-to" about something electrical. What is there to prevent anyone from "hacking" something, doing it completely wrong, and causing a fire? I have no problem with doing things on the cheap, but when it comes to safety or energy sources, it must be done safely.

This is far from TOS Violations, In no way have we explained how each step goes, just a basic outline, and unless your familiar with electrical (meaning an electrician) you wouldn't be able to jump into a this project. But it does bring up something that i think has been completely missed. Bring in a pro to look at the space, none of us can tell you what you need based upon your information. Plus a pro could offer suggestions we aren't even aware of.

So do us all a favor and don't do this on your own, specially with something that's strict on its codes like this.

 

[headcrab]

My bad, I apologize.

 

[Grog12]

What's a nutral?

 

[ptero]

Nutral is a level 65 gryphon and wind rider flight master located at the Terrace of Light in the neutral Shattrath City.

 

[Grog12]

Nutral is a level 65 gryphon and wind rider flight master located at the Terrace of Light in the neutral Shattrath City.

Excellent excellent reference. ((says the resident nerd mod))

 

[dmoes]

I think this violates the TOS. This thread has turned into a "how-to" about something electrical. What is there to prevent anyone from "hacking" something, doing it completely wrong, and causing a fire? I have no problem with doing things on the cheap, but when it comes to safety or energy sources, it must be done safely.

I will add this since my posting with the diagram did not have a disclaimer

HAVE A LICENSED ELECTRICIAN DO THE WORK ALWAYS!

any electrical installation like this should be done by a licenced electrician even If a wall switch or something simple goes wrong here we have qualified and licensed electrician do the work. we have a few volunteers that are licenced and will do simple jobs but anything like this we would hire someone.

the relay control box method is very inexpensive and can be a used until a proper solution like Sensor + dimmers with smartlink stations that offer far more possibilities than just house light control. I am at a community theatre run exclusively by volunteers so I do understand that sometimes hiring a consultant and buying architectural lighting systems may not be in the budget.

 

[dmoes]

What's a nutral?

Nutral is just me and my very bad spealleng

 

[kiwitechgirl]

What you're describing here is actually a relatively simple setup. You're switching back and forth between two different power sources via a relay switch.

Actually no, we're not....the house lights are powered by the dimmers at all times, regardless of whether they're in work or show mode. In show mode, the wall switches have no effect and only the desk controls the house lights; in work mode, both the desk and the switches work (obviously if the switch is on and the desk has the lights at 40%, if you flip the switch off, the lights go to 40% - I guess you'd call it HTP!)

 

[itie]

Sorry to be off topic, but i was wondering while reading this post about the two pictures at the top. My question is, if you have the second picture's switch installed does that mean that the house lights would be wired into the dimmers?

thanks Giovanni

 

[Edrick]

Correct, wether it's a full dimming system or architectural lighting controller.

 

[headcrab]

Unless you have alternate transformers or generators, why would you have to switch the neutrals? Assuming a single transformer, all neutrals end up at the same point.
Also, if you put two phases on the same relay pole, bad stuff happens if it's not rated for the voltage.

 

[itie]

Correct, wether it's a full dimming system or architectural lighting controller.

ok well with that being said would there ever be a reason for a place to have that type of house light switch and not wire them to the dimmers? I going to help a local theatre company with some of there shows in a few months, and from what they are telling me is that the only way to turn on and off the house lights is with one of those panels. This will be my first time working in this space and nobody there now is a tech person, so I was thinking that they aren't doing something right. Just from walking around the place I can see the panel on the wall matches the light board. i want to say they were both leigh brands.

thank you
Giovanni

 

[coldnorth57]

In the theatre that I work in the house lights are run off of the CD80 SV. I have run out of the CD80 SV low voltage wires to a set of switches, one on stage left, one on stage right and one up in the booth. The house lights can be truned on and off from all 3 stations but the booth has full control and can shut out the stage switches. And with the booth swicth turned off, the lighting board through DMX run the house lights during a show.

 

[Edrick]

I'm not sure as to the specifics, this would be an example of one of the Leviton Architectural Units a-2000® Cabinets > Dimming Panels > Dimmers (commercial) > Commercial Lighting > All Leviton Products from Leviton Electrical and Electronic Products

Could be because the lighting panel is connected to an emergency backup, or they didn't want to use the dimmers on the stage system. Perhapse someone here who works for ETC as I believe that's an ETC panel might have some ideas.

 

[starksk]

...Could be because the lighting panel is connected to an emergency backup, or they didn't want to use the dimmers on the stage system. Perhapse someone here who works for ETC as I believe that's an ETC panel might have some ideas.

The second picture in my original post is a Unison Paradigm 10-Button station. While that is our current major architectural control system, the same basic design has been used in several of our products (Legacy Unison, SmartLink, DAS, etc...) as well as the concept being used in many of our competitors' products.

It is possible to have a Paradigm system controlling non-dimming loads through the use of DMX and/or sACN controllable devices. Those devices may be the fixtures themselves (e.g., LED houselights) or relay panels that switch on/off the loads based on the signal they receive.

i want to say they were both leigh brands.

Possibly Lehigh?