Automated Fixtures I-Cue problems, wear & tear?

[Garrettgb]

Hi, and thanks for reading my first post on the forum.

The theatre I work for has 4 Rosco I-Cue mirrors which we've been using in nightly shows for about 4 months each year, give or take, and they've always served us well.

Well we've just entered cue-to-cue for this years big musical and 2 of them are exhibiting a problem. After being on for a half hour or longer, one or both of them will be off in their position by about 6 feet (over a 40 foot throw). When the PSU is reset and the mirrors re-home themselves, their position goes back to being as programmed, for a while anyway.
we've tried all variations of termination and return lines. the power supply is only about 15 feet from the units which is about a 30 foot dmx run from the console.
Is this a normal symptom of the stepper motors eventually wearing out? We purchased them about 6 years ago. I haven't seen this problem before today, and I find it even odder that 2 of them began having the problem at the same time.
Anyone seen this before?

 

[venuetech]

I thought we have seen this problem before but i cannot find the thread.

 

[mstaylor]

I couldn't either Tom. I think it was a linkage that needed some adjustment but I simply don't remember and have never even seen an I Cue.

 

[Lotos]

Couple of questions:

What type is the PSU?
Does it have multiple Send/Return loops?
If so, are both I-Cue's on the same loop of the PSU?
If so, try seperating them...
Try running a single one at a time to isolate a voltage drop-out issue...

Do you have another PSU?
Could you try swapping out for a spare?
Could you do a day rental/beg/borrow on a compatible PSU from a local company, or another theatre?

These would all be things I'd check before assuming a Stepper Motor problem, if you have the ability... Especially on multiple units...
I've got I-Cues that see daily use, 350+ days a year, that are at least 6 years old.
I've lost a half dozen power supplies in those 6 years... But not a single I-Cue... All problems have been traceable to the PSU's... The quality control on these little guys seem REALLY tight!

 

[Garrettgb]

Hi, thanks for the response.
right now, they are plugged into a Rosco 200w PSU, which is about 6 years old, itself. 3 are on a daisy chain, and 1 is on a separate output.
excellent suggestions, we'll try the recabling ideas right away, and failing that we'll look into trying a different psu. have you really gone through a half-dozen of them? what kind are you using, and do you reccomend a model of psu?
thanks again!

 

[Lotos]

have you really gone through a half-dozen of them? what kind are you using, and do you reccomend a model of psu?

Over the years, a half-dozen at least... Though, in fairness, not just with the I-Cues... Our entire Scroller Rig is Chroma-Q, and thus is PSU compatible with the I-Cues...
Our PSU's are a mixed bag, two Christie Lites custom jobbies (4 Output x 4 Scrollers per Output)... Both of which have died several times and been sent in.
And we own 7, possibly 8 of AC Lighting/Chroma-Q PS-08... Which I love... But various factors over the years have led to several of their demise and repair, or replacement... Depending on the price point of each.

As far as what I recommend? If you're going to hang it, never touch it, and just want it to 'Work'... Then a PS-08 is a wonderful thing.
It has enough juice to run 6 I-Cues (3 per output)... Though if you're using long cable runs, or want to play it safe, I'd cut that to 2 per.
Chroma-Q - Products - PS08 Power Supply

I'm sure these's an Apollo PSU out there that's right for the job as well... I simply haven't had the luxury of working with much of their gear, beyond a pair of the AC-SP-75W's... Apollo Design | Smart Power™ 75W Power Supply
Which, by the way I would not recommend for I-Cues... Though Keith may chime in and say otherwise... They're essentially 75w 24v PSU's with a DMX pass-thru attached... Connecting the Data + and - from the DMX line, and the 24v + and - from the PSU together into a 4-Pin connector. Genius, by the way Apollo boys! These things have lived with a pair of scrollers on my HL and HR ladders since I started working here, and I've never ever touched them save to see what they were.

Hope your issues go away soon!
I-Cues that refuse to hit their mark, is just a nightmare I don't even want to think about.

 

[jglodeklights]

I've only worked with the Rosco and full size Apollo power supplies. The Apollo ones are great. Whether ones owned by a company I'm working with or rented from a shop, they just work and work, and happily do so with Scrollers, Rotators and Irises.

The Rosco ones I've gotten to use have only been a couple of years old, but one's fan is off it's bearing or something of the sort and is NOISY (hitting it fixes the problem, until you move it a 1/128th an inch). The others.... most of the time they would work, but sometimes one would just lock up for no apparent reason (even though it had the lightest load). My friend who has been the one working with one of the two sets of them I've used since their purchase told me he pretty much had problems from the first show on. The few used at my school, I would excuse them for being in use at a college where we were all learning for the first time how to use them if it weren't for my other experiences.

Mileage varies, though. This is just my personal experiences with these two brands, QC can vary from exact model and batch, though.

 

[Garrettgb]

An update on my lunch-break,
the first i-cue that was notoriously missing its mark was replaced with a unit from a neighboring theatre and with the exception of a few hiccups which may or may not have been programming related, it's working fine. However, its neighbor, which was only occasionally acting up before, has started missing its mark much more often, always 4 feet upstage. Unlike the other one, it remains "bad" until the psu is left off for a good 5 minutes or so. We tried rearranging cables to isolate it on its own channel, to no effect.
Today, we rented a chroma-q PSU and much cable, and the forementioned faulty i-cue began at it's 4-feet-upstage (wrong) position right away. Once we're on intermission, we'll be swapping out all of the 4 pin and 5 pin cable with the rental cable. failing that, we'll be switching the data feed from our 2nd universe to our 3rd. After that, we'll be left to assume that 2 i-cues have quite coincidentally gone bad at the same time.
our td suggests that perhaps our console is dying, but I believe we've already ruled that out by rebooting the psu and subsequent i-cues, without changing signal from the board, and seeing a change in position.

Thank you, everyone for your assistance. As you can imagine, this is a very stressful matter with 1 preview already behind us and opening night 2 days away. your suggestions are all appreciated.

 

[Lotos]

After that, we'll be left to assume that 2 i-cues have quite coincidentally gone bad at the same time.

That is what this seems to point to... Very odd, and quite a frustrating situation to be in...

That being said, if they were purchased at the same time, it's possible they came off the line one after another, and have a matched pair of 'early-to-die' Component X in them...
For curiosities sake, it might pay the check the Serial Numbers.

I really doubt that any of this could be cable or DMX related... But it never hurts to check.
The only two things in my mind it could have been was the PSU or the 2 I-Cues... The former being the more likely than the latter due to the single point of failure.

Hope things all work out for the best!

 

[sk8rsdad]

Throwing in my $.02, I have experienced issues with other fixtures where they failed to home properly during the initial programming and were, as a consequence, pointing correctly after being reset, but incorrectly for the show since the wrong values were stored for them. I don't think that's what is happening in this case but thought I would throw it out there as a possibility.

 

[derekleffew]

...I have experienced issues with other fixtures where they failed to home properly during the initial programming and were, as a consequence, pointing correctly after being reset, but incorrectly for the show since the wrong values were stored for them. ...

Valid point, sk8rsdad, and the reason a good programmer will send a soft reset to every fixture at the start of each programming session, at a minimum.