instrument to replace PAR 56

[FMEng]

The demise of PAR lamps comes hard. A bold feature of our 60 year old church sanctuary is achieved through the architect's brilliant placement of a pair of 300 Watt, PAR 56 NSP (narrow spot) lamps. The oval, soft edged, 15 x 20 degree field angle is precisely what is required to make it work. The lamp is 3840 lumens and 2750 K.

I am looking for instruments, either halogen or LED, that'll get me very close to the same beam pattern, brightness, color temperature, etc. I need your help to keep this tradition alive for a few more decades.

 

[ship]

Sorry and industry wide. LED which will require a lot of expense in removing dimmers and providing data with line voltage power to each new LED install. And on such an install next week for me to correct it for modern PAR fixture a lot of data and PSU/data wiring. Not that easy.. ETC Unison systems etc.. once you remove the dimmer, expenses and other control gear.

ETC S-4 PAR's as with perhaps other companies have alternatives still avaible to consider.

... but the "upgrade" is not easy otherwise and expensive even if volunteers to help on the re-figure on how it's done in different data cable having to be pulled to each controller.

TMB as a theatrical supplier has a company in Mexico making the 1K PAR 64 lamp - only source I'm aware of at this point for lamps. If and when I get my first batch (pallet) of lamps, will need to send them out to primary high profile Wrestlling show for testing. Assuming and hoping they work out well, such a concept could be good for PAR 56 lamps or 500w PAR 64 lamps.

I wouldn't plan on a new company making lamps saving the incandescent/halogen PAR insustry. Remember Osram alrady made a lot of PAR 64 lamps but recalled them, than dropped the production of them. A little disipointed I was not part of the test group. But basically GE/Coring was making Osram lamps as with other brands in m making the glass part of it. When GE sold off Corning and discontinued... that was the end of the bubbles. Other suppliers of the lamp had literally a year before given up production due to expense.

For now, convert to Unipar, Altman, ETC etc. if otherwise running your system how it is I would advise. Otherwise LED and in my case a few days of install in converting to LED fixture.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

Remember when there were “conversion kits” for PAR cans? I wonder if that’s something we’ll see again. Probably not.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

I don't know how long hpls will be around but for two fixtures, the S4PAR sure seems like a suitable replacement. If the current circuits will handle it, use 575 and keep down on dimmer to warm up and watch illuminance. Would have to try both the nsp and vnsp, maybe with some very light directional frost. Rent one to play with.

 

[BLPisani]

How are you controlling your PARs? Are they on a theatrical dimming system (lighting console to bring them up), a wall dimmer (like a normal dimmer switch you might have in your house), or a light switch?

If they're on a theatrical dimmer, ETC Source 4 PAR with NSP lens and HPL-375/115X is the current best bet. You can find used fixtures for about $100 each, and lamps are <$20 each. You could go with a LED solution, but the cheapest I've seen (in a quick Google search) is the ADJ PAR Z100 3K at B&H Photo for $335 each. The average per-unit cost for most LED solutions is around $1,000. Then there's the added expense of DMX cables, powercon-powercon jumper, and a DMX terminator. They also need a constant power source with a switch. (A regular 15-Amp household switch will work.)

If they're on a wall dimmer, the ETC Source 4 PAR with NSP lens and HPL-375/115X will be your best bet. I don't know how long you'll need them turned on. The data I've seen for these lamps is 8K lumens, so you'll want to dim them. They would need to be on separate wall dimmers since the minimum rating for a wall dimmer is 600W and two HPL-375s are 750W. You run the risk of burning out the dimmer if you run both on one dimmer.

If they're just on a light switch, the more expensive but probably right way to go is the LED PAR solution above. You wouldn't need DMX to control them, just spend some time setting them up. Most if not all LED PARs have a stand-alone mode. The only added cost from the LEDs themselves is the powercon-powercon jumper.

Additionally with LED PAR solutions, they don't really have that PAR oval shape. They're just wash fixtures. As BillConnerFASTC said above, some directional frost (silk, I think. Rosco 104, 113, 160; Lee 228).

EDIT: Though the LED solutions seem expensive (3-10 times the cost of the halogen solutions), LEDs generally last about 50 times longer than halogen lamps, so that might be something to factor in for cost.

 

[Chris Pflieger]

In our church, I replaced our PAR56's with Chauvet Rogue R2 Washes.... probably not right for you.

But in your case, it sounds more like you want some warm wight LED ellipsoidals since they would give you more control and a better CRI. A zooming wash fixture might work, but I doubt the color would be as good.

 

[FMEng]

Thanks everyone for all the input. The fixture is going to have to live in a hot, dusty attic, so I think that eliminates LED. That environment isn't kind to electronics or cooling fans. The current lights are controlled by a dimming rack. If I went with LED, I would have to upgrade the architectural controls to DMX.

I'm leaning toward using a pair of Source Four jr Zooms. My thought is I should be able to use custom gobos to get the slightly oval shape of the beam. The gobo would also reduce the size of the beam, since the 25 degree zoom minimum is still a bit too wide. The capability of a zoom lens would help me get the size right. If I need a softer edge than I can get by de-focusing, some diffusion might do the trick.

The current fixture has an ample opening, roughly 8-10" in diameter. My thought is to remove most of the old fixture, leaving the trim ring with the opening showing from the audience side. I would cover the opening from the attic with safety glass, then mount the 4Jr to shine through the glass. It'll take some mechanical work to get the placement right. Probably a unistrut frame.

The thing I'm most worried about is clearance for the 4Jr because there is some wood framing right beside. If the framing does not prevent getting the right angle, then I would cover the area with sheet metal to reduce the possibility of a hot light starting a fire.

Comments?

 

[JD]

Simple answer is to stock up on the lamps while they are still around. I know with the PAR 64 NSPs, I had two cases from the 1982. In 2008, I needed to do a reunion show and broke open the cases and lamped up a bunch of cheap cans. All the lamps worked great, and I still use them from time to time today. If they still work great after 37 years, I suspect the shelf life will exceed our own life spans! Stock up while you can.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

Simple answer is to stock up on the lamps while they are still around. I know with the PAR 64 NSPs, I had two cases from the 1982. In 2008, I needed to do a reunion show and broke open the cases and lamped up a bunch of cheap cans. All the lamps worked great, and I still use them from time to time today. If they still work great after 37 years, I suspect the shelf life will exceed our own life spans! Stock up while you can.

I think a good suggestion and try to dim 10% for long life.
In any S4 option, I like the higher watrage lamp run down on dimmer for warmth and life.

 

[RonHebbard]

Thanks everyone for all the input. The fixture is going to have to live in a hot, dusty attic, so I think that eliminates LED. That environment isn't kind to electronics or cooling fans. The current lights are controlled by a dimming rack. If I went with LED, I would have to upgrade the architectural controls to DMX.

I'm leaning toward using a pair of Source Four jr Zooms. My thought is I should be able to use custom gobos to get the slightly oval shape of the beam. The gobo would also reduce the size of the beam, since the 25 degree zoom minimum is still a bit too wide. The capability of a zoom lens would help me get the size right. If I need a softer edge than I can get by de-focusing, some diffusion might do the trick.

The current fixture has an ample opening, roughly 8-10" in diameter. My thought is to remove most of the old fixture, leaving the trim ring with the opening showing from the audience side. I would cover the opening from the attic with safety glass, then mount the 4Jr to shine through the glass. It'll take some mechanical work to get the placement right. Probably a unistrut frame.

The thing I'm most worried about is clearance for the 4Jr because there is some wood framing right beside. If the framing does not prevent getting the right angle, then I would cover the area with sheet metal to reduce the possibility of a hot light starting a fire.

Comments?

@FMEng A local amateur group has Source 4 Junior zooms and LOVES them. They originally bought 15 (14 & a spare) to replace their aging Ellectro-Controls Parellipspheres, partially due to their age and eventually due to difficulty obtaining replacement EGJ 's in the original Sylvania format with the long slim glass tubes atop the short porcelain bases. When manufacturers including GE maintained the correct LCL but by mounting a much shorter glass tube atop an appreciably taller and larger diameter porcelain base which would no longer clear through the hole in the Parellipsphere's glass reflector the group retired their E-C's and purchased 7 additional Source 4 Junior zooms for a present total of 22 and counting.
As stated back at the top: They LOVE them and have zero regrets! The machinist in the group periodically lubricates one of the bolts with something he calls "anti-galling lubricant" to minimize dissimilar metal problems and the Junior zooms just keep on going. Uni-Strut will be your friend. A little one-way stretching frost may be in your future as well. Dimming them down to 80% works wonders and doesn't appear to interfere appreciably with any halogen cycles.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

 

[JD]

The lamp is 3840 lumens and 2750 K.

It also sounds like the industrial version as compared to the theater version of the lamp. Many of those had lifespans ranging from 2000 to 4000 hours. I say that because of the 2750k color temp. If these are in locations that are hard to relamp then using the original lamps will require less labor and lamp life becomes the biggest factor in any decision going forward.

 

[SteveB]

Thanks everyone for all the input. The fixture is going to have to live in a hot, dusty attic, so I think that eliminates LED. That environment isn't kind to electronics or cooling fans. The current lights are controlled by a dimming rack. If I went with LED, I would have to upgrade the architectural controls to DMX.

I'm leaning toward using a pair of Source Four jr Zooms. My thought is I should be able to use custom gobos to get the slightly oval shape of the beam. The gobo would also reduce the size of the beam, since the 25 degree zoom minimum is still a bit too wide. The capability of a zoom lens would help me get the size right. If I need a softer edge than I can get by de-focusing, some diffusion might do the trick.

The current fixture has an ample opening, roughly 8-10" in diameter. My thought is to remove most of the old fixture, leaving the trim ring with the opening showing from the audience side. I would cover the opening from the attic with safety glass, then mount the 4Jr to shine through the glass. It'll take some mechanical work to get the placement right. Probably a unistrut frame.

The thing I'm most worried about is clearance for the 4Jr because there is some wood framing right beside. If the framing does not prevent getting the right angle, then I would cover the area with sheet metal to reduce the possibility of a hot light starting a fire.

Comments?

Sounds like a good thought process. Remember there’s a 115v, 375w S4 lamp.

 

[FMEng]

Simple answer is to stock up on the lamps while they are still around. I know with the PAR 64 NSPs, I had two cases from the 1982. In 2008, I needed to do a reunion show and broke open the cases and lamped up a bunch of cheap cans. All the lamps worked great, and I still use them from time to time today. If they still work great after 37 years, I suspect the shelf life will exceed our own life spans! Stock up while you can.

Good point, especially once I start doing the math. For the cost of new fixtures I can buy about 20 of the old lamps. They are 2000 hour lamps and not run at full voltage either. I have not kept track of replacements, but it's a good bet that they last at least 3 years. If so, a batch of 20 would keep it going until the year 2049.

I have six on the way from Grainger right now. I will talk with the facilities chairman about buying a bunch more. I think he'll agree it's a good idea.

 

[JD]

a batch of 20 would keep it going until the year 2049

At some point someone will do a refirb probably a lot sooner than that! I would suspect 12 would be enough

 

[FMEng]

Ironically, we did a refresh on the building a few years ago. Replaced most of the lighting but left those two alone because they couldn't find a suitable replacement, nor did anyone foresee the lamps going obsolete.