Is Local 829 worth it?

[Esoteric]

My old Mentor and a couple of other LDs I work with from time to time were asking me if I would like to go through the peer review process for USA (they are all members of USA). But I would do at the most 3 gigs a year that I need USA membership for. Would it be worth it to those of you in USA?

 

[jstandfast]

The operating idea in force is that once you become a member you then cut union contracts for all your design work............ The Chicago office
would be your regional place.

 

[Footer]

Its just like joining any other union, once you join you should stick to it. You're in a right to work state, so there is no reason to join. If you want to do it for the benefits it brings, do. However, after you join, you should do all your work under their contracts. I'm sure there are ways around that, but that is at least the theory. Its just like joining equity. You have to do it in a time in your life where you feel you can get all your work under the banner of your union. If you don't think you can, don't do it. I'm not sure on how stringent 829 is with outside worker outside of a 829 contract. I know equity actors will come down on actors who do work without an AEA contract and the consequences can be severe. Do your homework before you go and pull the trigger,

 

[xander]

Its just like joining any other union, once you join you should stick to it. Your in a right to work state, so there is no reason to join. If you want to do it for the benefits it brings, do. However, after you join, you should do all your work under their contracts. I'm sure there are ways around that, but that is at least the theory. Its just like joining equity. You have to do it in a time in your life where you feel you can get all your work under the banner of your union. If you don't think you can, don't do it. I'm not sure on how stringent 829 is with outside worker outside of a 829 contract. I know equity actors will come down on actors who do work without an AEA contract and the consequences can be severe. Do your homework before you go and pull the trigger,

It's not like AEA. You don't have to use a union approved contract if you don't want to. It's just like the rest of IA in that regard. The only thing it can do is help you. It will never hinder you. The only downside is the cost. If you can't justify the several thousand dollars that it costs to join, then it's not right for you at the moment. But if you can make that money back because you have jobs waiting for you, you just need the card, then I think it is worth it. I'm not a member. I'm not a designer. But I have designer friends. Lots in 829, some not. A good friend of mine was just forced to join because he was doing a show on Broadway. He was not very happy about it at the time, but I should ask him how he feels about it now that it's been a while.

They are not really like other labor unions in that they don't really "protect" the worker in regards to hours worked and such and such. Designers just can't really fit into a mold like that. It's the nature of the work. What they can do is set minimum fees and housing standards and the like. And, perhaps the most important thing, if the employer doesn't live up to their end of the bargain (such as not pay you on time/at all) you actually a method of recourse with the threat of IA lawyers behind you. There's also the health benefits that you can buy into.

-Tim

 

[SteveB]

My wife's an 829 Scenic Artist and in that category they "frown" upon and do not encourage the SA's working non-union. They generally understand that there's not enough work to keep every SA working full, or even part time, but will take action if you are blatantly working a non-union gig in the region they have control, that would normally come under their jurisdiction. With designers, they do not enforce working without a contract.

Part of the reason 829 has become easier to join over the decades is that it eventually dawned on them that having many, many more designers as members A) Looks good for the union, even if the majority don't work under contract and B) Having many more members paying yearly dues (plus that initial initiation fee) while not earning enough to qualify for benefits, helps subsidize those members that are working, contributing to pension and collecting on the medical. Simple economics.

 

[Esoteric]

Yeah, there are only 3 theaters here that are 829 theaters, and I would end up doing one show at each under an 829 contract. I really want to design in those theaters, but I get the feeling that all the money I make on those gigs would pretty much go to my 829 dues. In addition 90% of my work is non theater (I do many more rig installs for clubs, theaters, churches, etc than I do actual theater design work) so I need to ask them if that will be a problem. But they all seemed to be pushing me toward it with a yeah, do it, its great, no problem, they don't really care about what you do most of the time type thing. So I wanted to check.

 

[xander]

I would think that if what you are doing is not under their jurisdiction, then they won't care, they can't care. It is when you are doing jobs under their jurisdiction without their contract that they can get uppity because they aren't getting their percentage. But, by all means, talk to your friends. They will know better than us just how your regional people handle it. I wouldn't take my word for it.

 

[derekleffew]

Joining USA 829

Saw this blog post, and felt it a good enough reason to revive this thread.

Joining the Union « Focus Notes

[This, and the following ten (10) posts have been moved here from another location.]

 

[Gern]

Re: Joining USA 829

Thanks Derek,
That is a nice perspective.
When I came to Hollywood in 1998, I was non union, and didn't think I'd ever need/want to join the union because on my FIRST gig(non-union) a local 33 brother told me horror stories; he felt the unions would be gone in a few years. In 1994 when a feature film I was on struck, I didn't feel I'd join, BUT I DID support the crew and walked with them. We got the contract. It was a tough time(the year end Holidays), but we stuck together with great solidarity and won. Days later in January, I got a call to be a 2nd unit Best Boy @ Universal on a Janusz Kaminski Film. I took the gig, and payed my 1/2 initiation fee the first day of shooting.
I had come to realize that "In Hollywood" a union card was really more of a "right to work on 'anything' pass card".
I have since, come to believe it is even more than that, as like the 'pro's' mentioned in the blog above.
And of course I could work on non union gigs, but over the years I've just gotten tired of the crappy abuse that 'most' non union gigs in town heap on us.

Last non union gig I did was a little flick called Titanic. I called it "the biggest low budget movie ever made".
I was on VFX for a year. 2 antidotes:
A production coordinator actually was happy to "take' some trash cans from her apartment building to use on set for several months. Wow, the money they saved there!
The UPM said to me: "Hey, I just got the "BEST deal in town on porta potties: $35 each a week."
He was truly giddy with excitement. Problem was these units were for the 7 weeks of NIGHT shooting @ Polsa Rosa Ranch in Acton. PRR had NO running water anywhere to wash our hands. The crappy $35 blue room units had no sink to wash-no other portable sinks were provided either. They also lacked lighting and we where shooting nights. So I had to run power to them and install lights.
Wow, the money they saved with those cheapies over the(industry standard in Hollywood) units with lights & sinks!

 

[Esoteric]

Re: Joining USA 829

First let me preface this by saying I live/work in Texas and theatrical lighting design is probably 5% of my total business.

That being said, about once a year I get one of my mentors calling me and wanting to talk to me about joining USA. The other two people that I consider "mentors" (who are both USA members) are very apathetic on the subject, but this guy is all in for 829. So every year I consider it (it would look cool on the website to put a Local 829 stamp), and I usually shelve it for later. For me, I do this for a few reasons:

1. I don't travel. I don't want to tour. If someone asked me to go to another city for a tech and opening I guess I would do it, but I am not interested in traveling more than 3-4 weeks a year.

2. There are only two theater companies here in Dallas that require Local 829 designers. Although I would love to work for them, they have been using the same rotation of 4-5 designers for 20-30 years and show no interest in letting anyone else new have a shot.

3. All the other companies here in Dallas hire designers without IATSE affiliation. I have worked for them all, so I don't see a benefit.

4. As I said, only about 5% of our business is theatrical design (I like to do 1 or 2 theater designs a year just for the fun of it). Another 30% is live music, but I have never been asked about USA by the producer for any of the bands I have worked with. In my experience (only 15 years, I will grant), no one in live music really cares. So yeah, it would be cool to be able to do a design here or there that requires it, but not for the money and effort it takes to get it done.

5. I have never had an architect ask me if I was a member of USA. Now they have asked if I was a registered electrical engineer. But never have they asked about that.

6. I don't like Unions. I think they are a relic of a bygone age. The best techs I know are non-union and the union techs I have worked with and hired in the past (5 years with local 207) were, overall, below average. In addition most of the union hierarchy I have dealt with is completely inept and the Locals are very badly run (I have asked for two electricians before and ended up with a Carpenter and a box pusher). Plus, every function the union was once needed for (health and safety, overtime rules, workplace conditions, work schedules, vacation, days off, etc) are now handled by the Federal Government.

7. Of course Texas being a right to work state, the threat of a strike is often met with a laugh.

8. Most good jobs, even if not union, pay union scale.

So, for me, in my situation in Texas (as a technician, designer, and business owner) being a member of USA just doesn't really have any benefits (other than looking cool on the website).

This is just my POV and another take on the subject.

 

[afgld]

Re: Joining USA 829

Esoteric -

I appreciate your response, and some valid points were made until you starting getting very negative towards unions and it seems that you yourself are uneducated as to what exactly local 829 is. Here are my responses to your bullet points to help clear up some misconceptions:

2 - I assume you are speaking of LORT theaters? Even then you can be non union and design in those houses. In fact the only place where it's required you have your USA card is broadway and broadway tours. Where I design in DC we have 5 LORT theaters, but the rest of the theaters can and do Union contracts. For those of us full time in this industry, it allots us the basic benefits anyone else gets for their full time job, and given that this is what I do for a living, and I do it well, people are willing to pay the little extra so I can have a regular life.

3 - The benefit is you get benefits. You get a pension, healthcare, welfare, and many others, maybe you didn't read the article where it lays out a pros and cons list.

4 - To say no one in live music cares if you are USA, some very famous Broadway Designers light live music concerts and tours. They are in fact USA. All it is is a different contract to sign

6 - I am sorry that you don't like unions, and I am really sorry you currently trust the federal government to regulate corporations and workers in an era where the Feds are so clearly bought. We work in an industry where we are frequently taken advantage of, and Unions help protect us, and not just us, anyone other brother with a card. Does it mean the union system is perfect, by all means no, but I would much rather a brotherhood of my peers looking out for me than government officials being paid off by corporate america.
Further - to say union hands are bad is a gross over generalization. Sure your call may have been mis handled, but did you take the chance that day to see where the good electricians may be? Maybe there was a bigger national tour in, maybe there was an event that required more skill, or was better paying than your gig would be. There is a hierarchy they follow. I'm sorry your hands weren't up to snuff, but in my professional life I have encountered just as many bad Union as Non Union, but when I speak of elite technicians, all the ones I know are union.

7 - You should look up states with right to work laws. Those states have lower median wages and higher rates of injuries on the job. That should further prove the point in 6. Further, USA doesn't typically strike except for in sympathy with IATSE.

Other than that you make some good points - I don't understand why you need to be so negative and venomous towards unions in an article that was just meant to help people make up their minds about whether or not to join. Being a union designer is an honor. It is like being a guild, where you have put in your time, paid your dues, and proven your skills to be high enough to warrant inclusion into the group.

 

[Footer]

Re: Joining USA 829

How many weeks/contracts do you have to work to get the benefits to kick in?

 

[Gern]

Re: Joining USA 829

How many weeks/contracts do you have to work to get the benefits to kick in?

I cannot say for USA 829.
As I'm told, West Coast I.A.T.S.E. contract is new members need 600 hours to start coverage. Thereafter, a member needs 400 hours per qualifying period( every 6 months to maintain coverage.

 

[Gern]

Re: Joining USA 829

...Plus, every function the union was once needed for (health and safety, overtime rules, workplace conditions, work schedules, vacation, days off, etc) are now handled by the Federal Government.

I respectfully say "RUBBISH!'' AT THE TOP OF MY LUNGS.
Whoops, they heard me 100' away on set.

I'm thinking this might start a controversy, but here goes:
Two days ago a member was injured on set. As he lay prone on the floor awaiting transport to the hospital, Production was already telling the best boy to "Take him off the clock when he is taken off stage". I don't feel that is right. Neither does our Locals Business Agent. The BA said to leave him on the clock until he is either transported back to his vehicle, or home. Due to injury he was unable to drive.

I really don't think The Fed's would be helpful regarding this.
I also agree there are different regional philosophies regarding working conditions, and my(& West Coast I.A.T.S.E.'s) stance isn't well received everywhere.

One of the most common daily abuses of non union productions that comes to mind here in California is working 6 hours before a meal break. 6 hours between meals is a Union concession to producers. CA Labor Law states 5 hours!

 

[EBB]

Re: Joining USA 829

One of the most common daily abuses of non union productions that comes to mind here in California is working 6 hours before a meal break. 6 hours between meals is a Union concession to producers. CA Labor Law states 5 hours!

I know in the union I am in on the other side of the states, we have our meals and whatnot set up through the houses we work at. Generally all of ours are at 5 hours- though a few are different. But it was all voted in on things like hour minimums, breaks, meals, etc. It seems to me that if that is a problem, the union needs to renegotiate contracts to fix those issues. And if said issues can't be fixed then either take the hit and keep working or just don't work there. Both options have some serious conversation and debate to them. but that's the gist of what I generally hear in situations like that.

 

[Esoteric]

Re: Joining USA 829

Esoteric -

I appreciate your response, and some valid points were made until you starting getting very negative towards unions and it seems that you yourself are uneducated as to what exactly local 829 is. Here are my responses to your bullet points to help clear up some misconceptions:

2 - I assume you are speaking of LORT theaters? Even then you can be non union and design in those houses. In fact the only place where it's required you have your USA card is broadway and broadway tours. Where I design in DC we have 5 LORT theaters, but the rest of the theaters can and do Union contracts. For those of us full time in this industry, it allots us the basic benefits anyone else gets for their full time job, and given that this is what I do for a living, and I do it well, people are willing to pay the little extra so I can have a regular life.

3 - The benefit is you get benefits. You get a pension, healthcare, welfare, and many others, maybe you didn't read the article where it lays out a pros and cons list.

4 - To say no one in live music cares if you are USA, some very famous Broadway Designers light live music concerts and tours. They are in fact USA. All it is is a different contract to sign

6 - I am sorry that you don't like unions, and I am really sorry you currently trust the federal government to regulate corporations and workers in an era where the Feds are so clearly bought. We work in an industry where we are frequently taken advantage of, and Unions help protect us, and not just us, anyone other brother with a card. Does it mean the union system is perfect, by all means no, but I would much rather a brotherhood of my peers looking out for me than government officials being paid off by corporate america.
Further - to say union hands are bad is a gross over generalization. Sure your call may have been mis handled, but did you take the chance that day to see where the good electricians may be? Maybe there was a bigger national tour in, maybe there was an event that required more skill, or was better paying than your gig would be. There is a hierarchy they follow. I'm sorry your hands weren't up to snuff, but in my professional life I have encountered just as many bad Union as Non Union, but when I speak of elite technicians, all the ones I know are union.

7 - You should look up states with right to work laws. Those states have lower median wages and higher rates of injuries on the job. That should further prove the point in 6. Further, USA doesn't typically strike except for in sympathy with IATSE.

Other than that you make some good points - I don't understand why you need to be so negative and venomous towards unions in an article that was just meant to help people make up their minds about whether or not to join. Being a union designer is an honor. It is like being a guild, where you have put in your time, paid your dues, and proven your skills to be high enough to warrant inclusion into the group.

I did not mean to seem "venomous" toward unions. I apologize. In their day they were very useful, but have long outlived their usefulness. Maybe part of it is seeing the damage that union labor has done to my wife's home state of Michigan. But, on your individual points.

2. I did misspeak here. I meant companies not theaters. For example, I know that you can be non-union and design in the Wyly theater. But all DTC designers are USA (which I know is by choice, but that is their policy). So I should have said there are a couple of companies (like DTC) that I would love to design for, but a lack of USA membership keeps me from it. I apologize for my error.

3. I am not sure about anywhere else, but here in Texas all the benefits that unions provide are available to any self employed individual. Or you can incorporate yourself (not a bad idea anyway) and get the benefits because you are a corporation. I stand by my assertion that they provide no value in this area.

4. I know that. But having designed for some b level acts (never had a chance to design for a secular a list act) no Producer has ever asked me if I was a member of USA or insisted that I be one.

5. I am sorry, I just don't buy the apocalyptic view of the Federal Government. Perhaps because I am an "evil" corporation? If you feel you are being asked to do something unsafe then perhaps you should do what every other employee in America does and call OSHA and make a report? If your employers are violating state employment rules, again make a report to OSHA, I guarantee they will show up and investigate. If anything, another reason I do not like unions is that they create a dual level of behavior. They hold accountable those who have a contract with them, but they have created this sublevel of the theater world where employers think they can do whatever they want because there are no rules because they are nonunion. I say bull. There are rules that every employer MUST follow.

6. I tried to word that carefully. I suppose I did not word it carefully enough. There are exceptional union hands. There are rubbish nonunion hands. Want to know the difference? I can fire a rubbish nonunion hand and replace them ASAP. Have you ever tried to kick a union hand off a call? In my experience it is almost impossible, and when you do, you won't get another to replace them any time soon (and watch your priority fall down the table). Considering I pay 133%-175% of scale, I doubt there were any better paying gigs that day. However, there may have been higher priority gigs, but I doubt it because the guys I got had a combined 60 years in (at the time these IA's were on a seniority only system). But I asked for electricians and got a carpenter? That is a microcosm of what is wrong with the IA's that I have dealt with (in Texas, Tenn, and Georgia) and unions in general. Too many people lining their pockets and not providing any value in return. Again, no venom meant, just my take on Unions (my brother has been a Teamster for 25 years and I was in IA for 5). And yes, I know this has NOTHING to do with local 829 (except for the fact that I believe it provides no real value to me).

7. First of all median wages depends on the industry. They have higher median wages for blue collar jobs, but for white collar and tech industries it is actually lower. They also have higher cost of living. In addition, they have higher unemployment. My wife escaped a state with a heavy union presence. There were just no jobs. It is a wasteland. But again, that is neither here nor there on the 829 thing.

I guess I see union membership a little different. It is just a means to an end. And in this case it provides very little value for the money. That is my only point.

 

[derekleffew]

Re: Joining USA 829

...I'm thinking this might start a controversy, but here goes:
Two days ago a member was injured on set. As he lay prone on the floor awaiting transport to the hospital, Production was already telling the best boy to "Take him off the clock when he is taken off stage". I don't feel that is right. Neither does our Locals Business Agent. The BA said to leave him on the clock until he is either transported back to his vehicle, or home. Due to injury he was unable to drive. ...

(Controversy makes for interesting discussion. )
Company Policy at one place I work is: If an injured employee leaves property to seek medical attention, he/she is paid until the end of his/her scheduled shift. Get injured at five minutes 'til wash-up? Too bad.
At another: Time worked or four-hour minimum, whichever is greater.

 

[shiben]

Re: Joining USA 829

I can see where Esoteric is coming from, Especially having been in MI for a couple of years recently. The job market and economy are a joke, but I think that has to do with a union overplaying its hand and getting bitten in the arse, and less with unions being bad by nature. Especially when they get tied into the political culture, it becomes a huge problem.

 

[SteveB]

Re: Joining USA 829

Esoteric,

You have somehow totally confused IATSE Local 829 with the many other IATSE theatrical and film locals. Local 829 represents Scenic, Costume, Lighting and Sound designers, as well as Scenic Artists and other crafts. Thus many of your comments have nothing to do with the OP.

The article as posted by Derek was a very well written blog/article by a (presumably) young and up-and-coming lighting designer, detailing his experiences working in the Washington D.C. area and his reasons for joining Local 829 and as such, is a useful article for any members of CB wondering why or when they would want to join.

I am sorry you feel as you do towards unions in general. To state that unions were the cause of the "damage that [union labor] has done to my wife's home state of Michigan" is extraordinarily naive of the myriad problems associated with manufacturing in a world economy. Are there unions that seemingly live in the dark ages and refuse to see the light as it were, and become their own worst enemies ?. Certainly and the United Auto Workers (one of the unions I assume you are blaming for the state of Michigan's largest manufacturing business - the auto industry being in decline) are typical, but are you stating that the management at GM or Ford or Chrysler are not to blame as well ?.

I would actually classify the IATSE as one of the smartest unions in the US today, having first hand witnessed the successful unionization of my own facility (I am no longer an IATSE member as BTW, having given it up when I took my current college position), where the union was very aware of the universities limitations in this initial contract, as well as the unions recognition of the need to get the foot in the door and to get representation now, for workers that had none. Are the employees better off ?. Absolutely. They get a meal penalty now for when the timing of an event or load-in forces them to work hours that are in violation of State of NY Labor Law. They get overtime when asked to work before 7AM. They get monies put into a welfare and pension fund. Do they make more per hour ?. No, but they get benefits now and didn't before. That's what a union provides for and in this case and many others is a success for the employees.

Is the US better off having had such a strong history of union representation ?. Yes it is. If you believe otherwise, you are buying into a load of BS as put forth by corporate America and the US government.

 

[Esoteric]

Re: Joining USA 829

(Controversy makes for interesting discussion. )
Company Policy at one place I work is: If an injured employee leaves property to seek medical attention, he/she is paid until the end of his/her scheduled shift. Get injured at five minutes 'til wash-up? Too bad.
At another: Time worked or four-hour minimum, whichever is greater.

Yeah, in the real world no one gets paid if they have to be taken away. My dad had a heart attack at work, and they clocked him out when the ambulance was called. The company owner later decided of his own good will to pay him for the entire week without taking up vacation pay, but if you aren't on the floor working, no one owes you a check.

By the way, I did not confuse anything. If you read my responses I noted that many of them were neither here nor there. But considering that Local 829 doesn't provide any value, my overall feelings on unions effect my view of 829. I did a ton of research the first time someone asked me to join.

As far as the history of unionization? Absolutely. There was a time when unions were absolutely essential and drove America into having a safe and viable workplace. That time has passed now and unions serve no purpose that is not provided by either the USFG or numerous other private companies. We are absolutely better off for having Unions. But they have long outlived their usefulness.

By the way, and this is REALLY OT, but of course management is partly to blame for the state of the American auto industry. But even if management makes the necessary changes (which they are on their way to doing) they are handcuffed by UAW and will never be able to compete.

The only reason I put in my feelings on unions in general is because they effect my feelings on all union interactions including the prospect of joining local 829.

The example you give points out some of the flaws of unions. They drive up costs with ridiculous rules. Overtime pay for working before 7:00AM? What a ripoff. My dad used to start work at 5:30 every day. Should he get an hour and a half of overtime every day? Overtime is just that. It is compensation for working over the allotted work day (8 hours in the US). Not for arriving or leaving at a particular time or on a particular day. I once made over $100 an hour at a gig because of union bonuses. At the time I loved it. Now, I see how ridiculous that was and why that particular company started calling nonunion hands from then on. I use several union hands, but not under union contracts. I refuse to be handicapped like that. Again I know none of this has to do with the OP, but for a group that offers no real value anyway for me, my overreaching feelings on unions contribute to my thought every year to put the idea on the shelf and do other more useful things, like paying for workers comp coverage.