Design It just baffles me...

[Nikgwolf]

Hey everybody! I have a challenge for everyone: Name me one theatrical production you saw where a design incorporated anti-spill accessories such as egg-crate louvers, concentric rings, or baffled top hats. I am under the sneaking suspicion that these accessories are somehow limited to architectural and other permanent installations. It is not to say that they can't be used on theatrical productions, but it seems that designers aren't in favor of dealing with the extra headache of adding oodles of anti-spill accessories to their plot and rig. Is it the lack of permanency and the limited time schedule that forces designers to overlook their "OCDness" for unwanted spill? Or is our industry even aware of the multitude of unique accessories available to us?

Thoughts?

Nik

 

[Les]

I would say that it's because in many situations, theatrical lighting is located in such positions that naturally minimize flare, glare and spill. Generally, the lighting instruments over the stage are above trim height, so the teasers do the job of louvers, baffles, etc. However, there are some cases where barn doors are necessary; particularly in black box theatres, spaces with very high trim heights, etc.

In front lighting positions, the lighting instruments are normally above and/or behind the audience enough that spill won't be a problem. In the event that they're not, we use top hats, half hats, etc.

 

[JChenault]

The Oregan Shakespeare festival uses top hats with built in louvers on their front of house fixtures in the outdoor theatre.

Does a flocked interior of a top hat count for anti spill? If so the times square line of top hats has anti spill.

You're right that you don't see it too often however.

 

[DuckJordan]

it was about a year ago but, when i went to see Macbeth, every single ellipsoidal i could see was top hatted, and i mean every single one. It made it very difficult to figure out what instruments they used but i believe it was S4's.

 

[xander]

I do agree that egg crate louvers and baffles are not common in theaters, and I think that Les's observations are good ones. I do see concentric rings pretty frequently, though. My current show has a bunch. I think that (for unknown reason) a lot of designers have just developed a habit to use top hats on ellipsoidals and concentric rings on PARs. I would venture a guess that egg crate louvers and baffled top hats were developed for the architectural market, and much more recently than top hats in general, so designers already have their ways. Yes, they could be used to great success in theaters, but 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' comes to mind.

-Tim

 

[derekleffew]

Nikgwolf, I see what you did there.

Perhaps the following, from VLX Accessories, best sums it up:

For many designers these light leaks and spill are not important, but for the very demanding world of Broadway and West End theatre, and the tours they generate, light leaks and spill can disrupt a design.

In other words, if you're a lousy designer, you won't use anything; but if you're good (or want to be), you'll Blacktak, BlackWrap, and baffle each and every fixture within a foot-candle of its life!

Hijack: Has the VLX appeared on Broadway yet? Or were designers waiting for top hats and louvers to be [-]invented[/-] available for the VLX before using it?

I remember once sitting in the audience and being quite disturbed and annoyed by a light leak from an FOH catwalk-mounted French followspot at a Canadian troupe's show. It was so bad I could barely watch the stage spin, tilt, and elevate.

 

[xander]

Hijack: Has the VLX appeared on Broadway yet? Or were designers waiting for top hats and louvers to be invented before using it?

Made its Broadway debut in American Idiot.

 

[JChenault]

Looking at the VLX link, it appears to be what I used to know as hexcell. I first ran into this stuff about 35 to 40 years ago when I was hanging a show that Abe Feder was doing for a theatre confrence before it went to Broadway. He used it in his beam projectors to control flare. ( Remember beam projectors ?).

So - I believe that the product ( the 1/4 inch thick grate with lots of tiny hexagonal openings ) made it to Broadway a LONG time before VLX ( or moving lights, or LED's, or computers, or body mikes, ... )

 

[ship]

Don't remember shows, but know of instances either I or shows have used them. It's a tool for use at times and I wonder about it's question? Is the question that such a thing is not needed thus shouldn't be used contrary to the designer's wishes? If in that case, the designer is correct.

Optically, drop such a thing in verses the above and other means and what do you learn from the differnces?

 

[len]

I remember seeing them on some booms that were placed in the wings of the theater. Don't ask me which show, but I do remember seeing them.

 

[shiben]

I remember seeing them on some booms that were placed in the wings of the theater. Don't ask me which show, but I do remember seeing them.

Another "dont quote me on this one" but I feel like the most recent production of HAIR had Fresnels with scrollers and tophats on them... In our arena all the PARs have egg crates.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

I use Top Hats ALL the time since Barn Doors are useless on PAR's, especially S4 PAR's. Since a S4 PAR is essentially just a "shorty" PAR 56, often something has to be done to control all that spill. I often wish I had some Concentric Rings when using S4 PAR's with VNSP lenses as down/top lights to give them more of 'beam projector' look. Half Hats are another wonderful product, very useful for high side spill or box boom spill. I've never used egg crate but I see them in museums all the time.

Fixture accessories are wonderful products and once you have the ability to start using them its hard to look back.

 

[shiben]

Fixture accessories are wonderful products and once you have the ability to start using them its hard to look back.

That and blacktack. Once you start having the LX techs blackwraping/blacktacking every bit of light spill, your rig starts to look amazing, because you can literally hide everything but the lens in a blackbox, which makes for a cool look, I think.

 

[zuixro]

I'm designing a show in a blackbox right now, and after reading this thread I went and barn doored and top hatted every fresnel in the rig. And wow, it made a huge difference. (I would have top hatted the S-4's too if I had top hats for them) I wish I had before and after shots, but wow.

 

[icewolf08]

I use Top Hats ALL the time since Barn Doors are useless on PAR's, especially S4 PAR's.

I have never had any issues using barn doors on PAR64s or S4 PARs, in fact, we do it all the time. Seems to work quite well. Maybe you have defective barn doors? ;-)

 

[shiben]

I have never had any issues using barn doors on PAR64s or S4 PARs, in fact, we do it all the time. Seems to work quite well. Maybe you have defective barn doors? ;-)

The problem I have had with them is that when you make a cut, it ends up blocking like half the light, making it dimmer. Not real useful when trying to make a cut to a stage edge with a vnsp from like 80' away.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

The problem I have had with them is that when you make a cut, it ends up blocking like half the light, making it dimmer. Not real useful when trying to make a cut to a stage edge with a vnsp from like 80' away.

Exactly. On a PAR, barn doors dont "cut" like ERS shutters or when used on a Fresnel, they dim like mechanical dimmers.

 

[blalew]

I've often considered tophatting my toplight (S4 PARs) b/c the ceiling/trim is so low - 12' above stage. In the first few rows you really feel like they're blinders. The low trim seems to get them more into view