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Design Issues and Solutions Lighting for a non-traditional space - looking for fixture complement ideas

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by eadler, Feb 13, 2019.

  1. eadler

    eadler Active Member

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    Occupation:
    Director of Engineering (Broadcast)
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Hi all,

    I've been looking for solutions for a community group lighting an intimate space. Biggest constraint is budget. Second biggest constraint is budget. Third biggest constraint is that the room is 28'x22' and ~9' to the wooden ceiling joists (another 10-14" to the floor above).

    The space is being laid out with a ~10'x8' 'prime' performance space (not actually square), with three walkways out of the room (between rows of free-standing seats) where action also happens, we put false doors in front of these exits.

    Last year in the same space we used ~18 fixtures that look like Altman micropars with 25W incandescent lamps and barndoors running off three light tracks (they have light track plugs but are cabled) with a box dimmer (all my personal devices) with a free software DMX controller that probably was not the right solution but it worked. Not much controllable there. I've retrofitted many of these fixtures to accept LEDs as the lamp base they used was not readily available (I bought 50 lamps and we ended up with 1 left over at the end of a two weekend run). I'd rather not use them again but it is an option. We're looking to purchase a number of direct DMX controlled LED fixtures and maybe use a few small incandescent fixtures. I do have a small DMX controller with direct channel control now which will make live control easier (and i'm not against assigning a bunch of fixtures to the same channel to make a group). We are able to attach items to the joists. My current thought is to install threaded studs that we will leave for future performances and attach yokes to these using washers and nuts, with an oversized (1/4"?) aircraft cable over-engineered-attached to the side of each joist that we can safety the fixtures to.

    At this point, I'm basically looking for ideas for a complement of fixtures.

    Something like the imported 7-LED RGB pars but we really don't need RGB (and definitely don't want separate R/G/B emitters) might be good for general wash in the main area but we need tighter control for the walkway areas.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
  2. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Urr! Welcome to Zat! Make ART! Bettter and more options in space than I lived with in doing so in all ways when I started.

    Initial thought, bolts are to secure either some form of track, or if you want your unique design to be always used. Budget well and overcompensate at this stage of Making Art. But do do dilliagence in lighting positions might change next time. A start of advice. So glad you have a space and even what fixtures you have.. Make Art with it and advance. A start to others and further advice.
     
    RonHebbard likes this.
  3. Dionysus

    Dionysus Well-Known Member

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    Occupation:
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    I've done shows in "found spaces", everything from an abandoned car dealership and garage to the courtyard of a jail to a display space in a museum. Use what you can get your hands on, shoebox dimmers and fresnels, LEDs are amazing if you can have them as they use so little power.

    There are a lot of ways to go... Unfortunately, most of the good non-RGB LED fixtures are NOT CHEAP, so unless you can make friends or such it sounds like they'd be out of your budget.
    Honestly, any RGB PAR fixtures that aren't total "crap" could be useful to complement your incandescent fixtures. get creative.

    ETC Colorsource PAR fixtures can work wonders, as they are RGBL and the secondary lenses you can get for them are really useful (50-degrees is great!, don't go more as its FAR too diffuse).

    Have fun!
     
    RonHebbard likes this.
  4. Ford

    Ford Sr Product Manager, Chauvet Professional

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    Occupation:
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    You may want to look at the Eve-Pars and Fresnels. They may be closer to your price range, and seem to fit your application.
    These are mostly sold into small theatres and houses of worship. The F-50Z (Fresnel with a 50w LED, and zoom) run about $480 retail (you may be able to get a better deal if you purchase through a non-retail dealer/specifier). P-100 WW (Par, 100W, Warm White) are about $100 less, and have 3 options for beam angle (2 lenses, plus open). the Fresnels include Barn Doors. Control for these is via DMX and/or Chauvet DJ's D-Fi.

    These have a homogenized source (not a bunch of individual LEDs), are bright, have a nice field of light, and decent dimming.

    If they're too powerful for your setup, you can go smaller with the Track Fresnels (Eve TF20), which have (I bet you already broke the code) a 20w WW LED, and can be powered by your existing Track and Dimmers. These don't have zoom, do include barn doors, and have a street price on them is only about $130.
     
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  5. eadler

    eadler Active Member

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    Occupation:
    Director of Engineering (Broadcast)
    Location:
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    Thank you Dionysus, as you note the white LED fixtures for some reason are not cheap - I know when I got the direct import RGB PARs that I own they actually were about the same price but it seems that the manufacturers have either caught on that they get used in more professional locations or that they sell fewer and raise the price - either way it's $$$$ even for direct imports.

    Very cool, Ford! I'm very interested in the interchangeable lenses on the PARs and how they actually look, of course the 50W and barn-doors is probably more appropriate for our setting. Outside of this context, I'm curious how well they handle (flicker, dimming, etc) with TV cameras.

    I found a few direct import white LED fixtures online and ordered a couple for myself to both try and add to my holiday light setup but I'm wary of support and the noise of the giant fan they hide inside (of course, they're about 1/3 the price but there's likely a reason for that).
     
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  6. Ford

    Ford Sr Product Manager, Chauvet Professional

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    The Par has a set refresh-rate somewhere over 2khz... so, unless you're shooting in Slo-mo, you should be fine. That said, the best way to be sure is to test it in your space.
    The Fresnel uses CCR dimming... So again should be perfect for filming... again, test with your camera, if you're concerned.

    Both units are silent, so very good for low ceiling applications.
     
  7. Ford

    Ford Sr Product Manager, Chauvet Professional

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    Occupation:
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    Location:
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    really, though... get some fixtures in your space to check. It is the only way that you can be sure which fixtures will work for you. Any manufacturer can come on here and say "My thing is perfect for your application..." but ultimately, the gear in your facility has to make you (and your customers) happy.
     
    MarshallPope likes this.
  8. eadler

    eadler Active Member

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    Occupation:
    Director of Engineering (Broadcast)
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Thank you all for all of the input you provided!

    A follow-up: For this project we ended up hanging 12 of these guys: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07F7YNYPC/?tag=controlbooth-20 (the quieter of the two I found and the group figures the RGBWA could be used for effects lighting on the 'main stage' shows we do and perhaps as uplights at other events*). It's not quite as much control as I want but the project morphed to a stage in a corner of a room with seating on two sides (and at an angle from the opposite corner) so I'm hitting 3 zones on each axis from fixtures at two angles. Show goes up this weekend.


    * the other that I had tried was 100W 2-channel [cool/warm] with barndoors but quite loud and hard to guarantee future availability at a reasonable cost
     

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