Looking for dimmer packs for a tiny storefront theater

[MCSLight]

I’ve got some very specific questions regarding dimmer packs for a storefront theater that works in a converted office space. We’re trying to get funding together to upgrade from our homemade board and clip light rig. I barely know anything about dimmers. A couple other spaces I’ve worked in have had some kind of 4 pack dimmers with Edison plugs. Would a few of these be viable for our space? Right now we’re literally operating out of a wall outlet. I don’t have the experience or the knowledge to wire up anything fancier. So the real questions are:

Where would I even begin to figure out how much power we could put on our outlets before we cause problems?

Are there any recommended dimmer packs that would work in this space that aren't overly expensive?

Once the dimmers are set up, what would be a good, low cost board to work with said dimmers?

At this point we’re still planning on running on clip lights. Once we get the funding to get ourselves off the homemade board, we’d like to move to birdies. However I don’t see us using any standard theatrical lighting instruments any time soon. I’m guessing that would factor in to how much power we’d be using.

 

[jjdrummer]

Everything in theater really depends on the budget, but I have a household theater that some people may call big, but its small in my mind, and I have probably 4-5 simple DP-415 DMX boxes, and they are a really cheap fix, and all you need is a small elation board or somethin' to run it. When I started my theater in my basement I started when I was about 12, and I got the Dimmer in a box set on even guitarcenter.com or musiciansfriend.com (links are below). Just an idea, worked great for me. Take the Advice...

Dimmer system: Elation Stage Pak 1 Dimmer System in a Box | GuitarCenter
Elation Stage Pak 1 Dimmer System in a Box | Musician's Friend
Dmx box: Elation DP-415 4-Channel DMX Dimmer/Switch Pack | Musician's Friend
Elation DP-415 4-Channel DMX Dimmer/Switch Pack | GuitarCenter

 

[MCSLight]

That Stage Pak system looks like it'd be a good fit. You wouldn't happen to know if you could add another DMX box or two to it? I'm trying to go through the instruction manual, but I'm not quite sure if it'd take more boxes.

 

[jjdrummer]

That is a total possibility. I have many linked together. all it takes is a bit of backgroundknowledge, binary (or the internet), and a extremely small amount of time. easy. It's also what I suggest to my theater company for competitions and our occasional show that tours around to different schools because the system takes no time to set up. hope it does everything you need.

 

[josh88]

My black box space has that for a set up. The dimmers are just daisy chained together and plugged into the wall. You need to be sure what you've got coming out of the wall for power, is it a 20 amp circuit? etc... As well as what the packs are rated for and how many watts of lighting you can plug into the pack so that it is all balanced and doesn't trip anything.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[artdeco18]

we run a small space with no budget to speak of so everything has been make do with what we can get our hands on.

The dmx dimmers are an easy and inexpensive solution to the dimmer problem. They can be put closer to the instruments and chained together... the savings on cabling from standard rack mounted dimmers is huge. You can buy them for about $200 new (free shipping too) so can add to them as you get more cash. That's how we did it.

One warning though.... I would choose the 20amp versions over the 15amp. You may have to rewire your panel to provide 20amp breakers but it's worth the grief in the long run. We changed all of our instruments to 575 lamps... but 4 will trip a 15 amp breaker.

We couldn't find a board we could afford but found a free programme online called DMX control that will allow you to use a computer for a board. It only requires a $50 DMX to USB interface to connect. It's mostly in German but it works and it's free.

 

[artdeco18]

if you choose the DMX 4pack dimmers, you should take care to ensure the proper wiring for them. The 20amp versions should have 20amp breakers. The line from the panel to the dimmer needs to carry 20amps so you will need either 10 or 12ga wire depending on the distance to the dimmer. 14ga is fine from the dimmer to the instruments but keep in mind that each channel is only rated for 5amps which means the maximum you can put on it is 600 watts.

I'm not an electrician but work from general rules of thumb provided by electricians I've worked with. A 2.4k dimmer carries 20 amps... 4 channels of 600 watts is 2.4 k. House wiring is 14ga and the electrical code specifies 15amps as the maximum breaker. 20 amps requires 12ga. 20amp plugs are different also. We use 20amp twistlock (because i have lots of them around) for the lines to the dimmers and u ground on the lines from the dimmers to the instruments.

 

[BillESC]

I've found Leviton/NSI's D4DMX packs to be a better value than the Elation/ADJ/Chauvet four packs. The fact that each of the four channels is capable of a 10 amp load (20 amp max per pack) can come in handy at times.

 

[artdeco18]

elation makes the 20amp dimmers - it's model DP-DMX20L as opposed the the 15amp version.. and are about half the cost.

I'm not an electrician, but the draw per channel on a 20amp dimmer shouldn't exceed 20amps I wouldn't think and a four channel 20 amp dimmer then should not draw 5 amps per channel (5x4=20). I've seen them with 10 amp fuses in them but I think it is like what people do when they continually overload a fused circuit in their home... put in a larger fuse... it works but sort of defeats the purpose of the fuse.

It would be good to know though that I am wrong because we have some of the 15 amp dimmers and don't use them very often because I know that someone is going to forget and run them all up.

 

[JChenault]

elation makes the 20amp dimmers - it's model DP-DMX20L as opposed the the 15amp version.. and are about half the cost.

I'm not an electrician, but the draw per channel on a 20amp dimmer shouldn't exceed 20amps I wouldn't think and a four channel 20 amp dimmer then should not draw 5 amps per channel (5x4=20). I've seen them with 10 amp fuses in them but I think it is like what people do when they continually overload a fused circuit in their home... put in a larger fuse... it works but sort of defeats the purpose of the fuse.

It would be good to know though that I am wrong because we have some of the 15 amp dimmers and don't use them very often because I know that someone is going to forget and run them all up.

You need to read the manual to be sure. Often a pack will say "max load per dimmer 1000 watts. Max load per pack 1800 watts". In this case you could put (say) a 750 watt lamp on channel 1, 500 watt on channel 2 and 3, nothing on channel 4 and be fine on a 15 amp circuit.

 

[artdeco18]

You need to read the manual to be sure. Often a pack will say "max load per dimmer 1000 watts. Max load per pack 1800 watts". In this case you could put (say) a 750 watt lamp on channel 1, 500 watt on channel 2 and 3, nothing on channel 4 and be fine on a 15 amp circuit.

I see what you are saying. I didn't know that some of them will take 1k per channel. Although it can make for mistakes if people don't add correctly. In our case, to keep it simple and as error free as possible, we installed a new panel with 20 amp breakers and use the 20amp dimmers with 12ga to the packs. All of our instruments are lamped to 575 watts so each dimmer will accomodate 4. If the tech finds an empty duplex on the dimmer... they don't have to try to figure out what else is plugged into it... If it's empty, they can put an instrument on it...

 

[JD]

I would stay away from putting a 1k load on any of the 4 channel shoebox dimmers. Almost all of them use 15 amp triacs which gives you the needed headroom on a 600 watt lamp, but pushes it too close with a larger load. Rule of thumb is you want to have a triac that is rated at 3 or more times the intended load. Following that rule, your limit is about 1/3 of 15 amps. The channel would handle 10 amps of resistive load with no inrush, but lamps don't work that way.
Also, if you are using a 15 amp outlet, you need to de-rate that to 80% of 15 amps, or 12 amps. That gives you a total pack wattage of a little under 1,500 watts.

So in summary:
1) Consider the packs to be limited to 600 watts per channel even if they have a 10 amp fuse.
2) If you have a known 15 amp receptacle and nothing else is on it, consider you max load at 1,500 watts for the whole pack.
3) If you have a known 20 amp receptacle and nothing else is on it AND the pack is equipped with a 12/3 cable AND a 20 amp plug, consider you max load at 1,900 watts for the whole pack.

 

[len]

I’ve got some very specific questions regarding dimmer packs for a storefront theater that works in a converted office space. We’re trying to get funding together to upgrade from our homemade board and clip light rig. I barely know anything about dimmers. A couple other spaces I’ve worked in have had some kind of 4 pack dimmers with Edison plugs. Would a few of these be viable for our space? Right now we’re literally operating out of a wall outlet. I don’t have the experience or the knowledge to wire up anything fancier. So the real questions are:

Where would I even begin to figure out how much power we could put on our outlets before we cause problems?

A number of companies make a system where you plug a device into the outlet, then run another device over the circuit panel that identifies which breaker it is connected to. It's about $100 +/-. Barring that, you could just plug a light bulb in and flip breakers, although not recommended.

Are there any recommended dimmer packs that would work in this space that aren't overly expensive?

I've found plenty on ebay for $200 +/-. I've purchased Leviton and Elation but there are others.

Once the dimmers are set up, what would be a good, low cost board to work with said dimmers?

There's plenty of 2-scene boards around. I use several Elation 24-channel, but again, it's not the only game in town.

At this point we’re still planning on running on clip lights. Once we get the funding to get ourselves off the homemade board, we’d like to move to birdies. However I don’t see us using any standard theatrical lighting instruments any time soon. I’m guessing that would factor in to how much power we’d be using.

Your typical edison plug dimmer packs are rated at 2,400 watts. But the power cord is typically only 15 amp. I use mostly Source 4's so I figure 2 x 575 watt lamps per pack, just to be safe. Birdies likely draw a lot less power, but cabling might be simplified by using 4 - 6 fixtures per dimmer pack (depending on the wattage of a birdie), using more dimmer packs, and running less power and data cords around. It just depends on budget, logistics, etc.