Low Lying Fog Effect without using Dry Ice or Fog Machine

[amwindl]

So here is the deal. The director and Set Designer want a low line fog effect for pretty much the whole show (70min). The space is a studio theatre that has pretty much no air flow in the space so when you use fog in the space it hangs around for a long time. This is the reason why we cant just use a fog chiller and a fog machine because when the fog warms up it just hangs around in the air and makes the whole room smokey. We would use a dry ice machine but the audience is sitting within 3' of the stage an the artistic Director is afraid of the dry ice getting within the audience and causing problems. So does anyone know of any other way to create the effect?

-Thanks

 

[sk8rsdad]

You could try using some defocused slow moving lighting ripple or cloud effect on the stage floor to give a sense of motion without having anything for your actors to walk through.

In my venue it could be done with our Roboscan 918's with the prism, glass gobo, and a static breakup gobo in the beam, with some variation in the gobo and prism spin directions and speed to make it a little more random. I expect you could get similar results with enough conventional fixtures and some dual gobo rotators.

 

[cprted]

The director is concerned about exposing the audience to dry ice fog, but its a-ok for actors???

Chilling the fog will give you a similar effect to dry ice, but it isn't quite the same. I would talk to the TD of the space and see what they recommend and what has worked well in the space for previous shows.

 

[amwindl]

The problem with the dry ice is the space is basically a black box, and the actors are on a 3' high platform and the audience are on the floor so when the dry ice flows past the stage platforms its going to go right in the audience's faces.

When cooling the fog, wont it just rise and hang in the air once it heats up?

The effect has never been done in the space so really we are looking for ideas.

 

[icewolf08]

I would be less concerned with audience exposure and more concerned with the amount of fog you are talking about. To put out dry ice or chemical fog continuously for 70 minutes will eat through consumables like crazy. If you were to do this with dry ice you would need a pretty large supply of ice per show and you would need a really good fogger than can keep the water hot enough for 70 minutes. If you go the chemical fog route with a chiller, you will eat through a lot of fluid over the duration of the show.

The space that you are in has to have some air flow or it would not be a space that you could have an audience in. It may not generate strong air currents, but there has to be some kind of air movement. The dry ice should be safe enough to use in terms of air quality (unless you have people laying down in it). You should also consider that the dry ice may make the floor wet and slippery due to condensation. On the other hand, there have been many studies done on the health risks of chemical fog commissioned by Actors Equity Association and overall, they don't recommend extended exposure.

Probably the best bet is to find out what scenes you really need to use the effect in and then go from there.

 

[BDS0111]

Question... is this show in the round??? You said it was a studio space. Is the audience going to be surrounding the stage on all four sides??

 

[amwindl]

Question... is this show in the round??? You said it was a studio space. Is the audience going to be surrounding the stage on all for sides??

Its a three-quarter trust set up.

 

[BDS0111]

What kind of platforming are you using?? Sounds like what you might want to try is to duct the fog up from underneath the stage and then create some air flow with fans to pull it upstage and off the stage. You'll have to do an experiment to see what would work for you! Is this a drama or a musical? Would noise from a fogger be an issue?

 

[Van]

Perhaps a nitrogen fog effect migh be in order, but again 70 minutes a night ? You better have a HUGE budget. Make that HUUge.
Google Nitrogen Fog systems you find a variety of manufacturers.

 

[amwindl]

What kind of platforming are you using?? Sounds like what you might want to try is to duct the fog up from underneath the stage and then create some air flow with fans to pull it upstage and off the stage. You'll have to do an experiment to see what would work for you! Is this a drama or a musical? Would noise from a fogger be an issue?

The show is The Queens and unfortunately the Upstage wall is the back wall of the set, there really is no Upstage and off. The space has three door ways, it a black box. The noise from a fogger and fans might be distracting. And they have tried using fog in the space before and it just hangs in the space for a very long time.

Any Ideas that are outside of the box, because foggers dont work in the space and Dry ice has many issues besides the audience such as the amount needed for the run of the show.

 

[seanandkate]

Your artistic director is correct in his concerns for the use of dry ice. If you haven't got the airflow to get rid of water based fog, you certainly don't want to run the risk of exposing a captive audience to that volume of carbon dioxide. Plus actors would be at the risk of exposure standing in CO2 fog for 70 minutes. I think sk8tsdad is on the right track with a lighting driven solution.

 

[BDS0111]

Van has a good suggestion too, although it would be costly!

There are many ways to manipulate the air flow, you just have to experiment and see what works for you. Perhaps the fog wasn't working well before because the ideal fluid wasn't being used??

I guess I didn't see the post about the lighting...that is a good thought too! Great thought!! What is the lighting concept for the production like? You'd need something strong to punch through the other stage light maybe... Could be a great solution.

 

[gafftaper]

I seriously question the artistic choice of fog for 70 minutes straight. Not only is it a very difficult thing to do, I think the audience will get annoyed with it quickly and it will just be a distraction. This is theater right? There is a reason you've never seen this done before. Is this show about acting or about fog? Continuous fog is just going to be a distraction for the audience as it slowly gets more and more out of control. Use some dry ice fog to set the mood for 5 minutes then cut it and let the actors do their job. The purpose of theater tech is to create the world that the play exists in while staying out of the way of the audience's experience. Any time you do some sort of over the top effect like this you better have a REALLY good reason for it, because you run a high risk of annoying the audience.

Creating a lighting effect which could be dialed back as the setting is established is a great idea.

If you are stuck on fog you could try a chemical fogger with a chiller and LeMaitre's extra quick dissipating fog juice. Maybe it will dissipate fast enough to not block the audience's view.

What's your budget? The best option would be to create a 6" platform on top of the stage. Run duct work into it to let the fog out and then create a perimeter of ducting to suck the fog back out as it reaches the edge. This would be complicated, time consuming, and expensive to do right.

 

[Les]

Just for future reference, the directors were probably requesting a "low lying fog effect". Might help in future searches

 

[gafftaper]

Spelling fixed for future search purposes.

 

[ruinexplorer]

Well, if you are looking for long running fog, you should consider what is being used for themed environments, ultrasonic water mist foggers like this. However, this is opening a new set of dilemas. I used this type of systems in a museum that I was working in. Since you state that you have little air flow, this should look nice, problem being where to have the water and how to suitably move the fog. Ideally, you would want the mister to be directly under you perfomance area with a perforated deck to allow the mist to rise up. You would need to have your deck be topped with a non-slip surface since you would undoubtedly have condensation on the deck. The biggest concern with doing this is ensuring electical safety. When installing in the exhibits, we had the luxury of installing the proper GFCI protection as well as barriers to keep personnel and visitors from being near the water. So you would also need to use precautionary measures to prevent electrocution (very possible). I recommend that if this method were to be considered that a licensed electrician be available to provide you with the necessary GFCI protection.

 

[BillESC]

To accomplish what the director wants, here's how to do it.

First, install an 16 to 24 inch plexiglass trim to the stage. This will create the "pool" the chemical fog lives in.

Second, you will need to refridgerate the floor of the stage probably 10 degrees below the ambient temperature of the venue. You'll have to experiment to fine the minimum amount of cooling required to keep the fog from warming.

Third, duct the fog to the stage from a remote location.

Forth, remove warming fog by having a vacumn duct. (Input up stage right, vacumn out stage left.

 

[BillESC]

BTW, I'd suggest the actors wear heavier than usual socks.

 

[JChenault]

Your artistic director is correct in his concerns for the use of dry ice. If you haven't got the airflow to get rid of water based fog, you certainly don't want to run the risk of exposing a captive audience to that volume of carbon dioxide. Plus actors would be at the risk of exposure standing in CO2 fog for 70 minutes. I think sk8tsdad is on the right track with a lighting driven solution.

I've heard this fear of CO2 with dry ice fog, but I have not seen any studies that show it to be a problem. It seems to me that it would take a LOT of dry ice to increase the level of CO2 in the air to toxic levels. Does anyone have any reputable studies that quantify the danger to actors, audience, or crew from extended exposure to a dry ice type of fog?

John

 

[gafftaper]

Here's a safety notice on City Theatrical's site from the compressed gas association. I'm yet to find a documented death. But there are plenty of warnings like that from fairly reliable and official looking places.