Mixers/Consoles LS9 routing internal effects to a Mix

[NickVon]

We've just gotten our new LS932 and have successfully run "RENT" and now currently "the Life". I'm not extremely familiar with external effects racks aside from the patching using a send/return on an analogue board.

What i was looking to do was to patch an echo effect so that i can just have channels that i want the effect on send to say Mix 2. (I found a work around but wanted to find a different (right?/more universal) way to do it.

for Rent i ended up using mic channel "inserts" inputs from the two mic channels that needed it, and just manually clicked the Insert on when the effect was needed.

What i would like to do was patch the effect so I could just dial say Mic 7 and 8 into mix 2. Then when i fade in the Mix2 slider on a custom or master layer i get the effects put into the system. For whatever reason i couldn't get this to work. I think the problem was in the "return" I was able to figure out how to send mics to mix 2, and able to set the inputs for the internal effects rack to pull from mix 2. But i couldn't figure out how to get the sound back into mix 2 for controlling the effects the way I'd like.

Am i missing something obvious?

Thanks in advance.

 

[bishopthomas]

Am i missing something obvious?

Yes, and it's easy to do on the LS9. The same way you sent the mic inputs to Mix 2 (sends on faders) is how you need to send the EFX return to Mix 2. I absolutely HATE the knobs for the EFX returns, partially for this very reason - you can't see at a glance where they are routed. You'll need to go into sends on faders (SOF), send your channels to the EFX, go to SOF in the appropriate mix (we'll stick with Mix 2), send your mic channels at the appropriate level, then while still in SOF on Mix 2 turn up the EFX return.

Now, just so it's more clear where your EFX are routed, I would assign them to faders. If you don't know how to do this let me know and that can be a new post of its own. Keep in mind that it is possible to send the EFX to itself, thus causing a nasty feedback loop. I found this out the hard way when I crashed (well, it went into "protect" mode and wouldn't pass audio) an M7 at the start of a concert. The band took the stage and I thought I was turning up the EFX to the mains when I was still in SOF mode. The console froze and I had no idea why so I restarted it. It came back up and did it again, and I figured it out while it was rebooting the second time. This was all during the band's first song, no audio to FOH, just stage volume (lots of it, thankfully). Oddly enough, no one seemed to notice, neither the band nor the audience.

 

[NickVon]

"go to SOF in the appropriate mix (we'll stick with Mix 2), send your mic channels at the appropriate level, then while still in SOF on Mix 2 turn up the EFX return."

This is the part where i'm lost. If in the SOF mix 2, how do i set a "return" Do i need to "unpatch" mix 2 from sending to Omni out 2? and patch it into another mix as a return. It's the returning the signal back to the board where I'm missing a setting/patch/encoder? Can i return it on a fader in the custom layer, or does it have to be a fader i have a input for (ie fader/channel 24?) (haven't played around much with custom layer yet, so i don't know if you can put faders for things that aren't 1-32, mixs, or matrix's?)

 

[bishopthomas]

If you haven't de-assigned or re-routed any of the effects then they should still be on the stereo 1-4 knobs. To check this go to your rack setup (press the "Rack 1-4" and "Rack 5-8" buttons at the same time). To the left of the effect is the input, to the right is the output. You can change this by cursoring to the patch, hitting enter, then selecting a new I/O patch. Like I said, I like to return the EFX to faders, but if you can put them where you want (or keep them on the knobs).

So now, SOF to Mix (corresponding EFX, maybe 13), send the channels to the EFX processor. Go to SOF to Mix 2, send the appropriate amount of dry signal (the input channel) as well as the wet signal (the knob by default, or whatever you have changed the return to if you decided to go that route).

By the way, the manual actually is a useful bit of material:
http://www2.yamaha.co.jp/manual/pdf/pa/english/mixers/ls9_en_om_f0.pdf

 

[mixmaster]

We've just gotten our new LS932 and have successfully run "RENT" and now currently "the Life". I'm not extremely familiar with external effects racks aside from the patching using a send/return on an analogue board.

I think the problem was in the "return" I was able to figure out how to send mics to mix 2, and able to set the inputs for the internal effects rack to pull from mix 2. But i couldn't figure out how to get the sound back into mix 2 for controlling the effects the way I'd like.

Am i missing something obvious?

Thanks in advance.

I'm a bit confused...first you mention an external effect processor, then later you talk about the internal effects rack.

For external effects, patch mix 2 to an omni out, run an xlr line from that omni out to the input of your fx, then run another xlr from the output of the fx unit to an unused xlr jack on the LS9. You can then patch the physical jack (Yamaha calls them 'ports' to any fader on any of the 3 layers and run it like any other input.

For internal FX, the concept is the same, there's just no wires. If you tap both the RACK buttons simultaneously, you get the rack so you can load your effect. In the left column move the cursor to the input button, click enter, move the cursor to highlight mix 2, that sets the input to that rack space. then move the cursor to the right column and select the output field. Clicking enter here will get you to a patch screen, and you can patch the outputs to whatever fader you want.
Another way to patch internal effects is from the effect itself. When you open that effect you can move the cursor to the input and output fields and click enter to bring up patch screens. A third option would be to go to the target channel on the Home layer that you want you effects to return to, move the cursor to the upper left corner of the screen and click the icon to open a patch window IIRC you can select the outputs of the effect rack here too.
Personally, I find patching much easier in the patch screen in Studio Manager. Open patch menu, chose input patch, Click to move the little dot on the target channel to rack output.
Matt

 

[NickVon]

This was all helpful thank you, gona play with it a bit next week after the show ends. Thanks.

 

[TimmyP1955]

It is customary to start with Mix1 patched to Omni1, 2 to 2, etc. and use these as Monitor Mixes (so the numbers all match - less brain work to set up your monitor mixes). Then any Mixes you want to use as Groups (which won't be routed to outputs, just L/R). Then the last four mixes as effects sends to the internal racks. (These are the Mixes that get played with the most during a show, so their Mix/Matrix buttons should be the ones that are closest to the operator.)

Where the effects rack outs are routed (be they on the rotaries or on faders - rotaries is fine depends on where the vocals are routed. If they are going straight to L/R, route the effects there as well. If the vocals are going to a Mix (group) first, route the effects to that group. Reason: if you happen to adjust the group level, the effects level will change to match the vocals.


Once you have it all working to your satisfaction, you might want to set up a custom fader layer so that your effects sends can be on the same layer as the most important channels - so you don't have to change layers in order to do your effects cues.

 

[NickVon]

also helpful, thanks Timmy.