Martin M-PC advice

[Pete Chirpich]

Hello! I wondered if anyone can give me direction on the concepts or use of the Martin M-PC computer program.
1st, a little about what I am doing:
I am volunteering at our church to make some creative use of lights during services. We have a band that plays every other week and it would be nice to do some simple effects, even if they are small cross fades. We have 3 electrics with mostly standard par cans, ellipsoidal and some fernels (is that the correct spelling?) through an ETC Smartpack 6T04. All in all 22 of those fixtures in the mix. We also have 6 Chauvet SlimPar Pro RGBA's in the mix. I am learning as I go due to a great lighting person who helps with our musical we do yearly. (The other reason for my board search). Previously we have rented the ETC Express board and he showed me how to program it for cues. That is what got me started! So I did a small deal during Easter season last year to flood the front of the sanctuary with different colors, as well as the walls. I really enjoying getting into that but I know this is really starter material!

I have been evaluating and testing light controls to replace my Lepricon 612 board that we use currently. I am leaning toward software based as I think we will be purchasing more LED lights, possibly some Martin scanner 812's and some LED floods for the walls. I do have an option to buy a physical board if it is easy to use but for now I have my head wrapped on computer based. I have a DMX King USB to DMX box.

The options I am looking for:

• Easy to just turn on standard lights for a regular service - Anyone can walk up to it and press the button to get the lights on.
• Easy or somewhat easy to create cues so we can fade to different looks during a regular service, or when the band plays, or special occasions.
• Ability to create what I perceive as a larger number of cues for our plays/ musicals. Then easily play them back and anyone can do it. (ETC was as easy as press go. If they messed up they knew how to go back. )
• Control moving lights or scanners if we rent or buy them.
• Sync music to lights. (not for sure we will do this but a nice to have).
• remote control - I like the idea of changing cues or changing intensity of a light using the iPad. As a test last week I was drumming in the band and in between songs was able to change the light on the keyboard player. Or sometimes we don't have someone who wants to sit up in the balcony with the light board so it may be nice to control from a pew.

So here is my struggle:
In M-PC, I setup all lights in fixture groups, created some presets and group presets, and created a cue List. Last night I created some simple cues to simulate going from "all lights on" for regular service to "Lectern only" when it is just a reader, to "Center only" for highlighting the singers. This is where I either did it wrong or don't get the terms. I saved them to the number each time. Then I basically took what the previous cue was doing, modified it, and saved it as the next cue.

When I ran the cues, I watched in programmer screen and it did not match what I had saved for any of the cues!

I keep checking the manual within the program and it tells me how to do this (sometimes is hard as I need to know Ctrl-R is record when they say to press record, as they are referring to the physical board, right) but I wonder if I am not getting the terms. Is there a document out there somewhere that explains what each of the features is for? As an example, I created presets called All Lights on, Lectern only, Singers Only, Alter, etc. I thought to create a cue I just click on 1 of those, then it places it in programmer and I do Ctrl-R to record and tell it what cue to save it as. Didn't seem to work. Maybe I just need to read over the manual again and see if it makes sense, I don't know.


I am also looking at Light Factory. The concepts in there seems obvious to me, I think because I have seen the ETC Express. But I have had issues with running cues on there as well. (Hmm, maybe it is the operator/programmer and not the software itself?!). I am not sure I like the interface as much but also need to run both of these on a larger screen or multiple screen if I can. For testing it has been on the screen of my laptop.

Any way, if anyone can shed light on some docs or web pages for me to get concepts of M-PC down, I will check it out. Any other opinions or feedback is also welcome! Again, I admit I am a newbie but I am getting there!

Thanks!

Pete

 

[JChenault]

Blatant commercial post here.

You might want to take a look at the product I helped develop. Gam Plexus.

http://www.gamonline.com/catalog/plexus/

It tries very hard to have a shallow learning curve. I once saw a show cued by the directorof our childrens theatre. someone shwed him how to turn it on and he just figured it out.

Some features you might find useful.

Set up a virtual button panel where each button fades to some standard look ( choir singing, pastor, greeting at start of service, etc.
Simple recording of fixed cue list shows ( your plays and musicals )
Easy and intuitive control of LED fixtures, moving lights, etc
While there is no ipad remote, you can run the application on a tablet talking wirelessly to your lights.

Take a look and see if it makes sense or you.

 

[cbrandt]

Have you tried watching the training videos? Martin has made a very good series of videos. Some of them are a little out of date from the current feature set, but what they teach hasn't changed. Some of the buttons just look different, but you'll be dealing with that anyway from using M-PC.

http://www.martinpro.com/controllersupport/ There is a drop down box for "M-Series" and a link for Training Videos. Give those a look, and see if that resolves your problem.

 

[coldnorth57]

I have used M2-PC wich is the same soft wear but has a wing/input control surface but I have spent some time using the off line editor and yes the training videos are a little long in the tooth they have helped me a lot if you want you could contact me and I might be able to help

 

[Pete Chirpich]

Thanks all for the messages. I had not seen the training link. I did watch some on you tube and they were helpful so maybe just need to make sure and do them all in order and see if I get it.

Thanks again!

Pete

 

[Pete Chirpich]

Ok I have gone through the videos again and feel I was getting it. I just apparently am don it wrong!

I am a little confused on how Presets work, and wonder if it is messing me up on cues. Here’s what I have done:

I created a new show and added my fixtures to it. Fixtures 1-12 are on an ETC dimmer pack. Fixtures 18-23 are rgba’s that are adding color to the sanctuary, and fixtures 15-16 are wash lights. They all work when I selected them in fixture groups – I can, individually or in multiples, select then and increase intensity or modify colors.

I made some sample layouts of a mock Sunday service. First Singers and Band. Selected my fixtures, adjusted to the intensity of the incandescent and colors from the rgba’s I wanted, then recorded and saved to a preset “SingerBand”. I chose the default selections of the record options.

I then did clear clear to clear the programmer, and again turned on some lights and led’s that only illuminated the lectern. Saved that to preset “LecternOnly”.

I then did a 3rd to illuminate the sanctuary using more incandescent and rgba’s as we had a bell choir with us. Saved it as “SingersBells”.

I cleared the programmer each time I did this.

I then cleared programmers and single clicked Singerband. Coo, my correct lights came on. I single click LecternOnly and that worked great , only the lectern was on and my other lights went off. I could toggle between these 2 and the lights were always correct.

I then single clicked Singersbells. Those lights came on correct. Cool. However, I then selected LecternOnly and that in fact came on but the SingersBells also stayed on!

So am I missing something when saving presets that is does not shut off the last selected preset lights but instead it adds the lights of the next preset? If so why did toggling between singerband and lectern only work so well? This is a pretty simple task I am trying but it did not work so I wonder if I am not saving it right or what. I theory I should be able to set these presets up and if we want to run an entire service this way I just tell the light person click here for sermon, click here for singers, click here for video presentations, etc. Instead I had to run the service and do a clear clear and press the preset I wanted.

Question number 2:

Assuming I get this fixed, is there a way to get the presets to fade from one to another, similar to a cue setting? So I select singersBand and want to use Lectern only. When I press lecternOnly it flashed pretty quickly. When I record the preset I choose Time as the default 2.50 sec and have even tried 4.0 seconds. It apparently is not a fade time or I am doing it wrong


Any advice?

 

[Pete Chirpich]

You need to make sure that you record the lights from "singersBand" at zero in the "lecternOnly" preset. If you don't record them at zero they will stay up. As far as timing goes, there is a global live time that you can set that will control the time that live changes use. This is defferent from the default time, which if I understand the time value you're referencing correctly, is the default time for when you record cues.

That does make sense, but isn't that what I am doing when i press clear clear? It removed all programmer settings so I guess I thought because my lights also go out that they were considered at 0. It also does not make sense that it works between my first 2 settings and not the 3rd.
I tried then to recreate them and save my functions using filter "intensity, color and beam effects" just in case. I also chose source options active and inactive and Selection was selected fixtures and non selected fixtures.
So do I set them to 0 differently?

 

[coldnorth57]

Ok I have gone through the videos again and feel I was getting it. I just apparently am don it wrong!

I am a little confused on how Presets work, and wonder if it is messing me up on cues. Here’s what I have done:

I created a new show and added my fixtures to it. Fixtures 1-12 are on an ETC dimmer pack. Fixtures 18-23 are rgba’s that are adding color to the sanctuary, and fixtures 15-16 are wash lights. They all work when I selected them in fixture groups – I can, individually or in multiples, select then and increase intensity or modify colors.

I made some sample layouts of a mock Sunday service. First Singers and Band. Selected my fixtures, adjusted to the intensity of the incandescent and colors from the rgba’s I wanted, then recorded and saved to a preset “SingerBand”. I chose the default selections of the record options.

I then did clear clear to clear the programmer, and again turned on some lights and led’s that only illuminated the lectern. Saved that to preset “LecternOnly”.

I then did a 3rd to illuminate the sanctuary using more incandescent and rgba’s as we had a bell choir with us. Saved it as “SingersBells”.

I cleared the programmer each time I did this.

I then cleared programmers and single clicked Singerband. Coo, my correct lights came on. I single click LecternOnly and that worked great , only the lectern was on and my other lights went off. I could toggle between these 2 and the lights were always correct.

I then single clicked Singersbells. Those lights came on correct. Cool. However, I then selected LecternOnly and that in fact came on but the SingersBells also stayed on!

So am I missing something when saving presets that is does not shut off the last selected preset lights but instead it adds the lights of the next preset? If so why did toggling between singerband and lectern only work so well? This is a pretty simple task I am trying but it did not work so I wonder if I am not saving it right or what. I theory I should be able to set these presets up and if we want to run an entire service this way I just tell the light person click here for sermon, click here for singers, click here for video presentations, etc. Instead I had to run the service and do a clear clear and press the preset I wanted.

Question number 2:

Assuming I get this fixed, is there a way to get the presets to fade from one to another, similar to a cue setting? So I select singersBand and want to use Lectern only. When I press lecternOnly it flashed pretty quickly. When I record the preset I choose Time as the default 2.50 sec and have even tried 4.0 seconds. It apparently is not a fade time or I am doing it wrong


Any advice?

Question One- Are you just useing a PC or do you have a control board pluged into a pc?

Preset I have found to be a little waste of time ...I like to biuld fixture groups that I can then set a level or color .... and then record as a cue
so a group of Pars or just the one in the center or the one for the lectern and so on...

the presest do not fade from on to the other they are just there for quick grab for programing

will add more soon

 

[Pete Chirpich]

Q1: I am only using a PC for this.

I had previously tried cue's and was not doing it right or something as they always came up blank. So I was just doing step by step. I had it all setup for our 3 little changes in our service last weekend, but when I went to the 3rd preset, then it never released when choosing the other 2. I got by by hitting clear clear then the SingersBand preset. I didn't like it but I wanted to isolate some areas for this service.

I agree that I would not want to use presets but cue's, so maybe I will try to go through those videos now and see if I can get it to work. My fear is I had previously built my cues from presets, so I thought if they were not switching between each other correctly, then a cue may not work.

Just so I have this straight: A fixture group is only selecting the actual fixture but knows nothing about the intensity, color or any option with the light itself. A preset steps that up one in that it takes my fixture group "SingersBand" and I now set the intensity and colors and save to a preset.

If that is true, my logic says the next step is make some cues and then I can roll from one to another in a cue fashion, with fades and timings.

 

[coldnorth57]

so this is how i build a show in M-PC

1. patch all fixtures
2. put fixtures into fixture groups (all pars) (center) (lectren) (all leds) (right side house LEDS) (left side house) and so on
3. click on the fixture group i want to work with (all Pars) and bring up their intensity and then record that to a cue ...lets say BANK 1 Cue list 1 (at the bottom of the screen)

 

[coldnorth57]

OK have you found the control panel whith sliders and a few other buttons up in the top right of the screen?

 

[coldnorth57]

Q1: I am only using a PC for this.

I had previously tried cue's and was not doing it right or something as they always came up blank. So I was just doing step by step. I had it all setup for our 3 little changes in our service last weekend, but when I went to the 3rd preset, then it never released when choosing the other 2. I got by by hitting clear clear then the SingersBand preset. I didn't like it but I wanted to isolate some areas for this service.

I agree that I would not want to use presets but cue's, so maybe I will try to go through those videos now and see if I can get it to work. My fear is I had previously built my cues from presets, so I thought if they were not switching between each other correctly, then a cue may not work.

Just so I have this straight: A fixture group is only selecting the actual fixture but knows nothing about the intensity, color or any option with the light itself. A preset steps that up one in that it takes my fixture group "SingersBand" and I now set the intensity and colors and save to a preset.

If that is true, my logic says the next step is make some cues and then I can roll from one to another in a cue fashion, with fades and timings.

so you record your fixture or group of fixture to a (fixture goup) and name what you wan
now slect that group and give it all of the things you want (intensty, color, postion, gobo.....)
and record it to a cue at the bottom of the sreen (Bank # cue#) will do this automatic for you.....
NEXT Hit clear and the RELEASE(and this is the fun one to find) top right looks like sliders click on it and slider control board opens you will see a SNAP button and RELEASE button hold the release button down for the count of 5 (till it turns red and then hit the SNAP button this will clear all of the stuff you have to do this at the end of each recording

 

[Pete Chirpich]

Sorry Glenn, I posted but apparently it did not come through.

First of all, yes you are helping me out alot and I appreciate it!
I followed your steps but it does not clear when I click clear then hold release and click snap. or just hold release and then snap (and no clear first). Things still stay in programmer. The only way for me to remove them is to press "clear clear".

 

[cbrandt]

What preset section are you recording in? M-PC offers a section in presets for Intensity, Position, Color, Gobo, Beam Effect, etc. If you use default recording, you'll only record information of that preset type (only Intensity information in the Intensity preset).

Clear Clear removes everything from the programmer. Release+Snap or Snap+Release will release all cuelists. Good for during programming, but be careful during a show.

For fades between, there are a couple of options. You can fade between presets. If you hit the Up arrow in the lower right hand of the screen to open up your parameter programmer, there is a small square in the upper left of that window labelled base. Hit it once to change to FX. You should see new selections available in there, you're looking for Rate. Click on that, and one of your options on the bottom of the screen is now Live Time. This parameter effects all programmer actions. If you set a live time of 5 seconds, changes between presets will take five seconds to execute. This defaults to 0 seconds, which is why it snaps between presets. You can't save this value into anything, you can only adjust it from the Live Time encoder (belt, wheel, screen, whatever you have available for programming). I find this to be incredibly cumbersome, so I rarely use it.

Presets are a great way to organize your programming if you're doing large events, or need to make changes on the fly that effect a large number of different cues. For what you're doing right now, I would focus on cue lists. They might not be the cleanest/fastest way to do what you're trying to do, but they're the easiest to get programmed, and they're the building block for a lot of your programming skills.

If you haven't changed any of the default settings, getting a cue list up and running should be very easy. While you're practicing, I would make one list for your conventional dimmers, and a separate one for your RGBA fixtures, just so that it is a little easier for you to identify when something goes wrong.

To make your first cue list, select fixtures 1-12 (press [1] [Thru] [1][2], [@] [Full]. This should set all your incandescents to full. You've already done this, I just want to make sure we're not missing any steps. Press [Record], and use the mouse to click on the Cue list on the bottom labelled 1 (black squares on the very bottom of the screen). This should bring up a small dialog box with your cuelist options. Give it a name, and either press enter or click on the red cuelist button. This will record the first cue.

Press [Clear][Clear], and reselect fixtures 1-12, and press [@] [5][0] [Enter]. Press [Record] [Enter]. Pressing Enter here will record your active values to the active cue list. If you don't trust that, you can also use the mouse to click on cue list 1 at the bottom of your screen.

Press [Clear][Clear] to clear your programmer. You should be able to play that cue list now, to see that cue 1 brings all your incandescents up to full, and press [Go] again to see them fade down to 50%. You can follow the same process with the RGBA fixtures.

To change the timing on those cues (they default to 2.5 seconds), go to the Cuelist window (on the left side of the screen). Press the [Edit Mode] at the top of the Cuelist Window to enable editing. You can then just click in the fade column for the cue you want to change, and type in a new time.

Hopefully that gets you started on using cuelists. Let us know if anything else trips you up.

There is also a very large community of Martin programmers at http://www.martin.com/forum/. There are a lot of posts there already on how to do a lot of things.

 

[Pete Chirpich]

Thanks for the note. I think I have the cue list part down. However, here is what the issue is. It seems that the cues retain their settings. So moving from cue1 to cue2 will show me settings merged from 1 and 2. For example, I selected fixtures 1-6, set to 100%. Saved in test2. Clear Clear. Selected fixtures 7-12, set to 50%. Recorded to test2 as cue2.
Clear clear so all things are gone.

I run the cue test2. Cue1 comes up, live output shows 100% on 1-6. Press go, cue2 comes up and 1-6 still show 100 and 7-12 show 50%. To me it should remove the ones that are not active. Is there a setting or something that is not wiping out previous cue settings?

 

[soundlight]

This is called "tracking". What it means is that any values that are unchanged will remain the same going forward. The theory is the same as operating a simple single-scene fader board - if you don't want the level to change for the next cue, leave the fader where it is. If you do, move it. There are many threads on the origins and theory of tracking if you search around here enough. It can be useful or useless, depending on what you're doing, but in most situations I find it quite helpful.

What I would do in your situation is record a bunch of cues in to one of the "grid of cues" views. I've only done this on an M1 and not in M-PC, but I know it's there - you can bring up a whole window of cuelists and just tap on the one you want to activate it. You can then tap on it again to release it, depending on how you have the tap functions set up. This will also allow you to do timing with your looks.

 

[cbrandt]

soundlight is spot on. Tracking can really help you out, but not everyone likes it. M-PC defaults to tracking, but you can turn it off on the cuelist. Select your cue list (click on it on the bottom of the screen), and go to the playlist window. In the upper left corner of the playlist window, there's a big button labelled options, click on it. In the general section of options, there's a big red button labelled "Tracking". Click on it to make it grey. That will turn tracking off on your cuelist, and you'll start to see more what you are expecting.

 

[Pete Chirpich]

I am not sure how I missed your posts, sorry. I removed tracking and it is working great! I am not sure I see the need of tracking but my guess is someday I would. For what I would use this for, it seems tracking is not needed.

I thank you for finding that as I can now move on to creating my cues with confidence!