MBT LED PAR 64 Can vs. Source Four Par /w ColorScroller

[RomeoTheatreCompany]

Hey all, back again with another question. The MBT LED PAR 64 Can vs the Source Four Par at 750w. I think we are pretty set on sticking with conventional lighting, but the director REALLY loves the idea of color-mixing, without buying color scrollers. It is just not in our budget. However, for the Par Can above (The LED), we would absolutly be able to buy 24+ of them, put 8 or so on each electric bar (we have three, about ~20 feet up) and purchase an ETC Element to control them all.

Or, is the output not enough? Should we still stick with the S4 Par's and put a color scroller in every other or so?

 

[len]

It depends whether they would be on at the same time as the conventionals or not, and what colors you'd be projecting, among other things. Remember that conventionals use subtractive mixing (starting with a white light and subtracting some parts out to achieve the desired color) whereas LED are additive mixing. The difference means that all things being equal (which never happens), an LED producing some colors will have different output than a conventional and it may drive the operator crazy trying to get everything in balance. Also, I didn't look at that fixture, but chances are the output is nowhere near a S4 par 750, so you'd probably need 4 - 8 MBT just to get the same output as 1 S4 depending on what color you wanted.

Any way you can get a demo in your space? Bring 3 - 4 different LED and a S4 and try them against each other?

 

[cbrandt]

The only two LEDs that I've seen that even come close to a conventional par output are Elation Arena Pars, and ETC's Desire line.

The Arena Pars, and most other LEDs are NOT going to give you the same quality of light as a conventional source. Especially in skin tones, you're going to lose a lot of rendering ability. ETC has done an amazing job of fixing that problem with the Desire line, but those are going to cost you quite a pretty penny more than anything else.

LEDs have a lot going for them, but when it comes to theatrical spaces, they still have a lot of catching up to do from conventionals.

 

[JFR]

Are you looking at the MBTs due to budget constraints?

I have used Elation Opti Tri Pars (RGB) to a somewhat successful extent. They had a really high output at about a 15' throw and their price point was right for us at around $500 a piece. They were great for our punchy saturate musical, but don't do anything subtly. Everything I mixed through them was very bold.

The Elation Arena units get an extra few points in my book for having the RGBW, which might help, but I haven't actually used them.

After about half an hour geeking out and looking at a ton of LED units, I found the Elation Quad Par, which offers RGBW, but only has a 10 degree field. Still very affordable.

Are you looking at LEDs because you don't want to buy scrollers? Or do you not have the dimmers to control the S4s?

 

[Kelite]

Hey Romeo Theatre,
Without appearing snarky, I question the reliability and dependability of a $150 lighting fixture in a professional installation. In the event one or more of these low cost LED fixtures fail, how would that affect your production scedule and/or paying audience? Again- my curiosity is simply on the long-term value and reliability of the fixtures...

I understand you may be looking for user testimonials, and I would do likewise prior to purchasing-

 

[Kelite]

In looking for testimonials of these LED fixtures, this thread from last year was found:
PSW Sound Reinforcement Forums: Lighting => Theater controller for MBT LED PAR 64's
(You may recognize a familiar contributor in this PSW dialogue too. Hi Len! )

Granted, the fixtures may now have updated hardware and/or software but the thread does provide some degree of insight-

 

[shiben]

If your going to buy 150 dollar units, take a look at ColorKey PAR 64s. They might be from china, and they might be crappy units, but MAN do they work nicely. Really bold colors, terrible hotspotting, but with 8 I did a decent wash of a 10'r circle, and got nice Red, Green, Blue, Teal, Purple, and Magentay colors. Made the green dress look brown, but they actually punched through a pile of S4s pretty nicely, and they came in black, which is nice. 150 bucks a unit, and a couple of guys I have talked to love the things for uplights, look at the pretty light lights, etc. You get what you pay for but these are at the better end of that.