Metal Saw Advice?

SweetBennyFenton

SweetBennyFenton

Active Member
It seems that my shop has moved enough into metal work to warrant the purchase of a new metal saw. I have a cheap abrasive disk saw and it's driving me nuts. It's loud, inaccurate and the blade flexes into an angle when I'm cutting.

I was wondering if I could gather advice on what to replace it with. A smaller metal saw would be good, preferably under $800. It would need to do acurate miters, but I'm never going to cut more than pipe and 2" square stock on it, so it wouldn't have to be huge.

Are all abrasive saws as inaccurate as my old one, or are there good abrasive saws that can give me good miters?

I was hoping that there existed a porta-band that I could mount into a miter table, but that doesn't seem to exist. All the mountable porta-bands I could find didn't do miters.

Anyone have a saw they really like?
 
I have a cheap Bosch that does good miters. Are you sure you are using the correct cutting wheel?
 
I did a quick google search for Cold Saw and came up with this.
A Cold Saw is really the way to go fo quick accurate cuts in metal. Even a well tuned HVMC < horizontal Vertical Metal cutting > Band Saw, like the ones listed [URL='http://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=13400471"]here[/URL] will drift on you. A H/V band saw is much cheaper however and with adequate attention to maintenance it can be an invaluable tool in the shop. For a cost / Value ratio I think the Jet line of tools is a good place to start. Go ahead an pop for the liquid cooling / lubrication kit for whatever you get, it will save you blades and expand you materials range down the line.

< links posted are examples and are in no way endorsements of any of the products, suppliers or retailers.>
 
Abrasion saws are exact to about a 1/16 if you are good. Doing angle cuts exact with an abrasion saw is nearly impossible.

In my metal shop I always need two tools. One is a carbide blade saw. The other is a portaband. If possible, the 3rd is a stationary bandsaw.

This is my favorite carbide saw:
DEWALT DW872 : 14" (355mm) Multi-Cutter Saw
It makes cuts like butter. However, a new blade is 150 bucks. At my summer home I go through a blade about every other show. Each show chews through at least 150-200 sticks of steel.
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At my summer home I also have this... G4030 6-1/2" x 9 1/2" Metal-Cutting Bandsaw
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I use it to make all of my angle cuts. In my experience, nothing destroys a blade faster then angle cuts. They are not exact and tend to warp the blade. I only do 90deg cuts on my chop saw and this does everything else. It does take some TLC to keep it cutting correctly, but it makes clean cuts for me.

Milwaukee 6232-6 Portable Band Saw
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That tool is pretty much a requirement when working in steel. If you have one, you will never use a sawzall with a "torch" blade again. It pretty much never leaves my table.
 
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Oh, and Footer. I was looking at the Dewalt Multi-cutter. Am I right that you would not recommend it for miter cuts? How is it for accuracy on angled cuts?
 
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SweetBennyFenton said:
Les... what kind of Bosch? Something like This?

14" Benchtop Abrasive Cutoff Machine/ Model: 3814

(I'm not as fancy with the liks as Van is)

I am really thinking of a H/V band saw. It would add some great versatility to my shop.
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That's the one. When I say "pretty good", what I really mean is "within reason". The cuts had to be good, but any gaps/inconsistencies were taken care of when we welded the joints (this was a non-theatre project -- building handrails from 1.5" square tubing). This was several years ago, and I'm sure there were plenty of gaps to fill, but they couldn't have been too bad, otherwise my dad would have returned the tool (he bought it specifically for this project, and now I have it because he didn't use it anymore).

My dad is a pipe fitter/welder (welds on +20" high pressure live gas lines for a living) and he has the portaband pictured above. He loves the thing.
 
The Multi Cut saws do excellent miters, they're almost as accurate as a miter saw for wood. However I do not recommend cutting anything except tubbing or pipe with them. angle or flat bar tends to to destroy the teeth faster. And while the blades are expensive (we paid about $90 for a new one last summer) since they are carbide they can be sharpened by anyone that sharpens table saw blades so if you can find someone around you who sharpens blades then you can get a little more life out of one of the blades. Try checking out the local hardware stores they can usually point you in the right direction for a blade sharpener.
 
Just out of curiosity:
What is the difference between the carbide metal saw blade you're referring to as appose to a standard carbide blade like you would find in a table or miter saw (wood blade)? Is it the pitch of the teeth? Can these blades have new carbides soldered on like you would table or miter saw blade? Is having new carbides installed economical?
 
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My hobby is working on steam tractors, so I'm often cutting and threading piping. I bought a portaband a few years back, and my only complaint is that I didn't get it sooner. The 'table' attachments I have seen have never looked like they'd be useful in a sceneshop setting, though - it's a tool that's best for freehand work.

Any saw can drift some, it all depends on what you're cutting, how you're cutting it, and what shape your blade and clamp are in. If you're really feeling the need to be precise, cut your workpiece a tad long, and use a grinder (or Bridgeport mill) to shave it down to a finish length.

If you're willing to possibly do some rebuilding and adjusting, you might consider looking for used saws. Both the h/v bandsaws and chop saws are common enough tools that you should be able to find decent ones in your local used market.
 
SweetBennyFenton said:
Oh, and Footer. I was looking at the Dewalt Multi-cutter. Am I right that you would not recommend it for miter cuts? How is it for accuracy on angled cuts?
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It will do miter cuts. If you set the tool up right it will do it. However, I have lost more teeth in my blade this way then I care to count. Because of the actual teeth on the blade, if the piece slides just a bit in the clamp it can jam the saw. I just about killed out of our carps last summer because he cut a bunch of stuff for a home project and screwed up my blade badly because he did not clamp the pieces well.

In my shop, if we make one angle cut we make 50. It is just faster and more accurate to chuck them in the bandsaw. I have made plenty of angle cuts with the saw. However, you do run the risk of wrecking your blade faster.
 
We use a a standard miter saw ( old one) and a carbide Milwaukee metal blade at the welding shop I work at. We also throw is in a worm gear driven hand saw. The blades are 65 a pop though. They sell a cheaper saw blade for them but they do not seem to hold up at all. The blades make cuts that are good enough for welding.

My favorite though for all things metal cutting would be the old work horse do all band saw. * swoons* It cuts, it welds its own blades, and it is the lovely old do all olive drab coloring. This also makes very precise cuts and with the proper wax blades can last a long time. If not set up properly though the cuts can be less than precise.

Also if you need to go really precise you can go for an old Bridgeport. It may not be machinist precise but you never know there are a lot out there to be had as of late. I will do almost everything you want to do with metal and wood and more. You can use it to clean up bad or rough cuts from other things. You can face things flat, at angles cut slots, sky's the limit with the proper vise and hold downs.
 
I have the Jet Version of the Horizontal band saw footer posted it is great You can put several sticks in at a time has its own coolant system. It was well worth the money. The cold cut saws have always treated me good to. I have never had very good luck with the abrasive saws and they are load. With our horizontal band it has its on speed control for the rate it drops and there is very little grinding to do to clean up the edge of the cut.
 
SweetBennyFenton said:
Alright... Thanks for the advice everyone!

I think I'm going to go with The Jet H/V band saw.
JET Tools - HVBS-56M, 5" x 6" Capacity Bandsaw, 1/2 HP, 1Ph, 115/230V

That should leave me with enough money at the end of the season to buy a nice porta-band as well.

Woo... I love upgrading my shop.
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Check out Hall Tool and supply, Acme Tool and supply, Chas Day Co. and Portland Contractors supply before you buy it anywhere. Hall and Acme are over on Grand and MLK respectivly, Contractors is on SE 9 or 10th, and Chas Day is just south of stark on 11th I think.
 
Van said:
Check out Hall Tool and supply, Acme Tool and supply, Chas Day Co. and Portland Contractors supply before you buy it anywhere. Hall and Acme are over on Grand and MLK respectivly, Contractors is on SE 9 or 10th, and Chas Day is just south of stark on 11th I think.
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Thanks yet again Van. :)
 
I love using cold-cut saws
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Pours coolant over what you are cutting, the blade turns much slower, no sparks and less flying debris (and a LOT QUIETER).
My college had a nice cold-cut and a couple multi-cutter saws (with a stock of various blades). Very nice. The cold cut is expensive, but in my opinion if I was to put together a scene shop working with metal I'd buy a cold cut no questions asked.

I also had a good relationship with a local steel supplier and a tool-and-die shop who both let me use their cold-cuts occasionally. Hey the tool-and-die shop waved most of their fees and their min shop fee for me.

I installed all the machinery at the tool-and-die place, including their computerized lathes, auto-feeding cold-cut saw and such. Very nice equipment that would give people in a scene shop wet-dreams.
 
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