Conventional Fixtures Mini strips

[hobbsies]

This is a rant post, I'm sorry I have to complain. I'm so frustrated with all brands of them, Altman and especially LE, I'm looking at you.

How the F am I supposed to change these sockets (see pics)? Good thing they weren't dead hung, they were on the ground row.. I don't normally carry a riveter with me, but even if I did, I would have to remove the entire backside and underside of the unit to get at the wires and the back side of the rivets. These sockets are things that have to be swapped often. I don't understand why they were designed this way in this particular unit. Wtf?

 

[josh88]

Those look like the altmans right? I've completely stopped using mine. I have 8 I think and they just aren't that useful, and I preferred to just free up the circuits for a more versatile fixture. I've had it with them.


Via tapatalk

 

[hobbsies]

I'm a freelance ME in Chicago, so a bunch of theatres use these things and I just get to deal with them . The altmans are annoying but are fixable while hung, but this particular brand is made by LE, is more than annoying and not fixable while in the air considering one has to basically dismantle the entire unit to fix the sockets.

 

[SteveB]

This is the L&E original model. They have pop-riveted sockets.

Only answer is to drill out the rivet, order a replacement socket, use a self-taping sheet metal screw to re-mount.

Part of the process is to remove the top cover, to access the wiring. Use butt connectors to re-splice.

*Cheapest* sockets I've found are the models available from Bulbtronics or Barbizon that have 36" lead wires (see below).

In truth, we started to cut out losses on our original versions once we had to do 3 or 4 sockets, as we found the original wiring connections were, in general, all going bad due to the fixture design of having the connections and wiring on the top of the fixture where they absorbed all the heat from top mount use. We gradually moved to the 2nd
generation (at $900 ea), whose sockets are screwed in and whose wiring trough is on the back, not the top.

Other issue that I've noticed over the years, is that as a result of the huge acceptance of MR16 lamps in architectural usage, the sockets generally suck. Thus I've had to replace many, many more sockets on the 2nd generation L&E's then I did when my 1st generation were relatively new, alleviated by the fact that they are easier to change - a 10 minute process typically.

Only good solution is to use the design as found on the Altman Zip Strip, which uses a separate lamp holder and a independent socket. The socket on the Altman has two pin holes for the lamp contacts and seemingly makes far better contact then the L&E/Architectural slide-the-lamp into place design.

Expensive socket & holder from Altman though.

 

[hobbsies]

This is the L&E original model. They have pop-riveted sockets.

Only answer is to drill out the rivet, order a replacement socket, use a self-taping sheet metal screw to re-mount.

Part of the process is to remove the top cover, to access the wiring. Use butt connectors to re-splice.

*Cheapest* sockets I've found are the models available from Bulbtronics or Barbizon that have 36" lead wires (see below).

In truth, we started to cut out losses on our original versions once we had to do 3 or 4 sockets, as we found the original wiring connections were, in general, all going bad due to the fixture design of having the connections and wiring on the top of the fixture where they absorbed all the heat from top mount use. We gradually moved to the 2nd
generation (at $900 ea), whose sockets are screwed in and whose wiring trough is on the back, not the top.

Other issue that I've noticed over the years, is that as a result of the huge acceptance of MR16 lamps in architectural usage, the sockets generally suck. Thus I've had to replace many, many more sockets on the 2nd generation L&E's then I did when my 1st generation were relatively new, alleviated by the fact that they are easier to change - a 10 minute process typically.

Only good solution is to use the design as found on the Altman Zip Strip, which uses a separate lamp holder and a independent socket. The socket on the Altman has two pin holes for the lamp contacts and seemingly makes far better contact then the L&E/Architectural slide-the-lamp into place design.

Expensive socket & holder from Altman though.

Interesting, the Altman strips I've worked on have the same slide in sockets that the L&E strip uses. It seems silly to have riveted sockets on fixtures that are likely to be dead hung though, where they will have to be fixed in the air.

Thanks for the advice

 

[BanditRO]

Altman sells (Or at leas sold) a socket ONLY without the holder assembly (QLV1). P/N 58-0029 was a series wired set of (2) slip on sockets. We would remove the holder assembly from the QLV1 and use the slip on sockets in their place.

 

[SteveB]

Altman sells (Or at leas sold) a socket ONLY without the holder assembly (QLV1). P/N 58-0029 was a series wired set of (2) slip on sockets. We would remove the holder assembly from the QLV1 and use the slip on sockets in their place.

I have not tried removing the built in socket from the lamp holder on the L&E version, but it's a good idea, saves a purchase and install.

@hobsies, the new Altman ZipStrips we purchased last year for our Theater Dept., came with the independent round socket design. It's one of the few things I've seen Altman do well in decades.

 

[hobbsies]

I have not tried removing the built in socket from the lamp holder on the L&E version, but it's a good idea, saves a purchase and install.

@hobsies, the new Altman ZipStrips we purchased last year for our Theater Dept., came with the independent round socket design. It's one of the few things I've seen Altman do well in decades.

Ah, now that I think about it, I have seen those. Wish I saw more.

 

[Scarrgo]

We bought 6 of the L&E 4cir Strips several years ago, and have a bad time with sockets. The problem was that one pin would burn off from a poor contact in the socket. The lamp frame is metal and is screwed down and is easy to replace.
After contact with the seller to L&E, I was told that I was putting the lamps in wrong, very frustrating.

Now we are having problems with the replacement sockets, pushing the lamp in will snap off a pin....
We are now buying the zip sockets that have the round push on sockets, will see how that works out...
Sean...

 

[JChenault]

We bought 6 of the L&E 4cir Strips several years ago, and have a bad time with sockets. The problem was that one pin would burn off from a poor contact in the socket. The lamp frame is metal and is screwed down and is easy to replace.
After contact with the seller to L&E, I was told that I was putting the lamps in wrong, very frustrating.


Sean...

Just curious, ( as I am having socket issues with two mini-zip strips in my kitchen). What were you doing wrong. Ie what is the "right way" to install them

 

[Scarrgo]

I think that they didnt want to believe that anything was wrong with there equipment...but they wouldnt say what the right way was.
I have been putting MR16 lamps into fixtures for years, I guess I forgot how, so the sockets would burn up and take the lamp out with them.
Hope that helps...
Sean...

 

[hobbsies]

I just think that the metal strips that serve as contacts for the pins inside the sockets wear down SUPER easily, and soon the pins start arcing in the base. Possibly the constant heat/cooling down/heat up/cooling down ruins the metal.

There's no "wrong way" to install a lamp in those, unless the pin isn't making contact. The lamps really only fit in one way. What a joke

 

[SteveB]

I just think that the metal strips that serve as contacts for the pins inside the sockets wear down SUPER easily, and soon the pins start arcing in the base. Possibly the constant heat/cooling down/heat up/cooling down ruins the metal.

The other issue is that the slide-in socket has very little metal actually engaging the lamp pins, really it's only the side of the lamp pin that's engaging the socket contacts. Thus the current draw allows heating of the contact points that is seemingly beyond the design of the socket to deal with, with failure the result. Possibly the fixture design aggravates the problem, with a lot of hot lamps clustered in a enclosed metal box, where convection cooling can only do so much. This is different then what you might typically see with an architectural MR16 track light fixture, which is a stand-alone design, often with an open-air socket (but sometimes not - think birdies).

I know we put a lot of effort into keeping our strips functional and I look forward to moving to LED's.

 

[hobbsies]

I know we put a lot of effort into keeping our strips functional and I look forward to moving to LED's.

Me too! The world will be a better place with LED cyc fixtures.

 

[LTCME]

Me too! The world will be a better place with LED cyc fixtures.

If only they were affordable!
I've had a new issue come up in addition to having to replace the sockets frequently.
A socket on two different strips is blowing lamps, not immediately, but about every week. When bringing the fixture to full, that lamp seems to get power and go super bright a split second before everything else comes on. All that has changed that could have caused this is the old socket (and several others in the fixture) have been replaced by cutting the leads and using a butt splice connector to attach the new socket.

Any ideas?

 

[SteveB]

Possibly a mis-wire ?, with the new sockets getting 120 volts ?.

Remember that this system is series wiring, with 10 - 12 volt lamps lamps in a circuit, on a typical 6ft, 30 lamp, 3 circuit strip.


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[LTCME]

Possibly a mis-wire ?, with the new sockets getting 120 volts ?.

That would make sense, but all ten lamps in the circuit come on and the bad socket doesn't blow the lamp immediately. Power is somehow getting to that lamp first, but then quickly continuing to the rest. I just can't wrap my head around how that would be possible. The socket is somewhere in the middle of the fixture.

 

[JChenault]

Verify that the lamps you are putting in the 'bad' socket are the same wattage, color temp, etc as the other lamps in the fixture. If the 'new' lamp is lower wattage it will have a short life span.