Moving inventory from 575w S4 to 750w?

[flamingo]

Thank you everyone!!!! Some responses:

@STEVETERRY @derekleffew - I was operating under the info of 115V at the circs, but now that I'm thinking thru this more..... I should double check. This wouldn't be the first thing I've re-checked and found previous info to be wrong. Plus, I have some downtime, so maybe once our fiscal year turns over at the end of the month, I'll buy a handful of different types of lamps and do an experiment

@DELO72 @Colin - We only go thru maybe 6 lamps a show, including wring out and tech, so lamp life isn't the problem here. I certainly don't want to worsen lamp life But I noticed in multiple show files on our console that we're running some lights, especially front systems, at full more often than I'd expect.

@theatricalmatt @StradivariusBone - WOW, that is news to me. I might be lucky enough to never encounter that. How would I go about checking? Looking at the body style and identifying generation of S4?

 

[flamingo]

If your front lights don't move back down to the stage much then you could always lamp the front lights at 750w and keep the stuff on stage at 575w.

LMAO if we were so lucky!! we move damn near every light every show. we also share our space with other companies, so things have to be as streamlined as possible.

 

[theatricalmatt]

I've given away all of my 575w Source Fours, but, if I recall correctly, the OG Source Four had a "tab" on each side of the fixture that stuck out, and the cap had corresponding notches to receive it. The 750W Source Four lost the tabs and notches, meaning that the 750W body could accept a 575w cap, but a 575w body could not accept a 750w cap. The 750w lamp cap also added the removable plastic focus handles (and a "750W" sticker on the side).

 

[ship]

575w Lamp caps were 18ga wire feeding them as deemed by ETC to be in sufficient in wiring for a 750w lamp. Initially if you did the lamp cap wiring upgrade, you could drill out the lamp cap for that 750w roll pin otherwise blocking its insertion. That was many years ago. Modern standards, if you have a 575w fixture there is no difference in body to cap matching up, it is just the18ga wire 575w lamp caps which need an upgrade.

 

[DELO72]

>>An HPL is about $15. How many years do we really need to squeeze out of it?

AMEN, Brother! The potting cement tends to dry out after some time (many years) if stored in an arid location. Likewise I've seen nickel-platted stainless steel lamp bases on Followspot Xenon lamps get rusty and corroded by being stored outside in a shed in Orlando, which is a very humid environment. Apparently it happens in S.E. Asia as well. But it definitely cheaper to replace a lamp or socket than a $2000 fixture.

 

[ship]

Am I correct in just trying to understand and learn. The higher the number/grade of stainless steel, the less conducive it is, but on the other hand more resistive to corrosion it is? Given Skin effect of conductance, at some point one does balance the grade of stainless with the wire gauge of conductor conductance per amperance of the lamp.

 

[derekleffew]

Likewise I've seen nickel-platted stainless steel lamp bases on Followspot Xenon lamps get rusty and corroded by being stored outside in a shed in Orlando, which is a very humid environment. Apparently it happens in S.E. Asia as well. But it definitely cheaper to replace a lamp or socket than a $2000 fixture.

How cute is it that Mark thinks a Xenon followspot costs $2000?

 

[TimMc]

How cute is it that Mark thinks a Xenon followspot costs $2000?

The socket is $2k. ')

 

[bdkdesigns]

@DELO72 My spots that live outside never even get close to their rated life for this very reason. Once the corrosion starts getting too bad, we swap the lamps. I completely ignore the hours because we never get close.

 

[ship]

Putting a perfectly good lamp into a perfectly bad lamp socket only adds more hours until the next failure of the replacement lamp. Less for each time. Mark had a Typo, bdkdesigns describes constantly changing lamps but not service to the fixture as a possible cause. If a bad lamp due corrosion... the fixture also no-doubt has a problem in connection to the lamp. Bad corroded terminals?
I surpervise the maintinence of many even elder and follow spots for a large company in Northern Illinois area. I also supervise the same for many large venu's in the area. I make the choppers, gate, and Iris shine like new. I track reflectors and replace them as needed. Lamp sockets are never a challenge given a polishing with coating.
Granted the fixtures in the North are pulled in for winter storage...
Only problem I have is elder ballast failing, micro switches, and some new problem this week probably involving the cover switch not engaguging... or a wiring problem to the ballast.
I keep old fixtures alive and have certain expertise. If a lamp is connected to it's terminals for power, It should work fine. If what it's connected to has problems... the failed lamp will indicate that burn. Putting a new lamp into a perfectly bad socket... above.
Corrosion on the lamp... take photo's of where the lamp is in socket is powered up. Rust on a shell of the base is not a problem - that is not where it is doing it's work.
Just a side note... if in wet conditions, I would start my spots for 20 min. on and 20 min. off fan cooled per day.

 

[bdkdesigns]

Putting a perfectly good lamp into a perfectly bad lamp socket only adds more hours until the next failure of the replacement lamp. Less for each time. Mark had a Typo, bdkdesigns describes constantly changing lamps but not service to the fixture as a possible cause. If a bad lamp due corrosion... the fixture also no-doubt has a problem in connection to the lamp. Bad corroded terminals?
I surpervise the maintinence of many even elder and follow spots for a large company in Northern Illinois area. I also supervise the same for many large venu's in the area. I make the choppers, gate, and Iris shine like new. I track reflectors and replace them as needed. Lamp sockets are never a challenge given a polishing with coating.
Granted the fixtures in the North are pulled in for winter storage...
Only problem I have is elder ballast failing, micro switches, and some new problem this week probably involving the cover switch not engaguging... or a wiring problem to the ballast.
I keep old fixtures alive and have certain expertise. If a lamp is connected to it's terminals for power, It should work fine. If what it's connected to has problems... the failed lamp will indicate that burn. Putting a new lamp into a perfectly bad socket... above.
Corrosion on the lamp... take photo's of where the lamp is in socket is powered up. Rust on a shell of the base is not a problem - that is not where it is doing it's work.
Just a side note... if in wet conditions, I would start my spots for 20 min. on and 20 min. off fan cooled per day.

@ship the spots live outside out in the open in Orlando with only a cover on them in the day to protect against the rain, which in turn creates an extremely humid environment. Not much can be done to prevent it. Not much different than what Mark said other then they are actually used just about every day.

 

[ship]

My troubleshoot concept for striking every day done in not preventing corrosion appairently.

I saw the same at Alpine Valley Music Theater in Wisconsin last week. They have S-4 thru c1974 360 series vintage radial Leko's in use as with some 3.5Q6. All working - terrable shape, or most all working. Such fixtures are left up until they die given you need a man-lift to access them. I'll start a conversation with them if I'm removing the Trouper lamps later this year.... but mostly if the lamp to socket connection is good... even wiring on their part sketchy, it doesn't matter what the fixture or rest of the lamp looks like.

Connection to contact most likely is not effected by weather or humidity in my opinion. It is a tensioned connection same or more than any circuit breaker connection you have. Deoxident, good clean connections and servicing for that in clean and coated brasswork in connections. Replace where too warn or coroded to be pitted.

How much rust on the non-electrical contacting parts of a lamp I would not care about if they work for them. If corrosion in the actual parts where the lamp contacts the base or terminal is much more to be concerned about. Obviously if I'm servicing the fixture, I would reject the lamp especially if damage to the terminal. But the vintage follow spots I keep working there I also keep almost factory new in all ways. Follow spots they are working with are from the "World Theater".... that would be a Google Search for date. Factory spec. I keep them other than the ballasts wearing out.

My opinion at least.

 

[tjrobb]

@ship The numbers are semi-arbitrary. There's 300's, 400's, and others, but that's grouping by sub-grade mostly (martensite, pearlite, etc.).

304 is most common for general use, 316 for pools or other chlorine environments. 400's I've seen a lot in higher-heat areas like flues and exhaust, but that might be a coincidence.

304L and 316L are a lower-carbon version for easier welding.

 

[ship]

So no relation in heat to corrosion in combination of weather to grade of stainless steel. While I have seen some fuzzy lamp sockets following hurricane storage of fixtures, mostly I see the fixtures I care for every year and clean them.
Perhaps more than a few times a year cleaning them? Though, given dexodent between lamp and base... there should be no corrosion. No matter what the rest of the lamp socket looks like (other than retaining more heat), it should not prevent it from striking an arc. Perhaps that corrosion retains more heat and throws off the halogen/xenon cycle?