Need help connecting lights to dimmer rack/control board

[elim29]

Hi, I'm a complete newb to lighting but need serious help in finding solutions to my situation. I'm trying to light an outdoor stage for a concert in the park. For the sake of budget, I plan on using about 20 Fresnels that I already have sitting in storage instead of newly purchasing Pars or etc. So I have the lights and the generator (which is big enough to easily power the lighting plus more), but my problem is I have no clue on how to connect one to the other. If my budget allows for it, I would like to have a solution that allows for lighting control. Nothing fancy, just a simple $300 control board. If I wanted to go this route, what kind of dimmer rack should I get so that I can control 20 lights? I was thinking of going with a couple of 6-channel hybrid dimmer racks, but there wouldn't be a need for a hybrid if I end up getting the the control board anyway, right? And what brand for the dimmer rack do you recommend?

If the whole package ends up exceeding my budget, I plan on simply hooking my lights straight to the generator for a hard on-off and make plans for an investment in the future. If I take this route, what are the exact pieces of equipment needed for each step of the set-up? I was told there needed to be a circuit breaker involved? Where does it need to go and which one should I purchase? I'm having a hard time understanding how 20 light cords are supposed to get connected to a generator, so if you could break it down in layman's terms, I would seriously appreciate it. Thanks.

 

[Footer]

What kind of lamp is in each fresnel? That is really going to be the deciding factor on what kind of dimmers you buy. If you have 500w lamps, something like 5 of these: 4 channel DMX Dimmer Pack would work. To control it, any DMX lighting console would work, from PC based to simple analog such as one of these: MATRIX Stage 24ch. Lighting Console would do it.

Granted, this is all pretty low quality gear that will work for you for a decent amount of time. Its not meant to be moved daily and used 365 days a year. It will work for you, however expect to throw at least one dimmer pack out every once and awhile.

If this is a solid one off, you might want to consider renting.

 

[meatpopsicle]

Hi, I'm a complete newb to lighting but need serious help in finding solutions to my situation. I'm trying to light an outdoor stage for a concert in the park. For the sake of budget, I plan on using about 20 Fresnels that I already have sitting in storage instead of newly purchasing Pars or etc. So I have the lights and the generator (which is big enough to easily power the lighting plus more), but my problem is I have no clue on how to connect one to the other.

I'm having a hard time understanding how 20 light cords are supposed to get connected to a generator, so if you could break it down in layman's terms, I would seriously appreciate it. Thanks.

Can I be the first to succinctly reccommend that you get someone with experience to help you out, even if its just for the 1st time you get this going. Even hooking up the lights to the generator with out dimmer control needs some sort of knowledge base. I would rather see your budget go to someone who knows what they are doing rather than a bunch of gear that you don't know the conventions of putting together properly.

A public park is a thoroughly...public...venue. The public's safety is paramount in this situation (truthfully in any venue situation) and I would hate to see budget be the presiding factor in how the lights are set up. Rigging, electricity, egress, fire safety. All these issues are present in a theatrical situation and, especially in a public park, are hopefully under greater scrutiny.

What city are you in? Perhaps the forum can lead you to someone who can lend a hand?

 

[BillESC]

My suggestion would be to rent a suitable dimming and control system complete with a tie-in set for the generator. 10K of dimming and control shouldn't cost more than about $ 100.00.

Better to waste a few dollars on rental than a lot of dollars on junk.

 

[jeffsw6]

I'm having a hard time understanding how 20 light cords are supposed to get connected to a generator, so if you could break it down in layman's terms, I would seriously appreciate it. Thanks.

It sounds like you are going to need an electrician, no matter what control solution you decide to use. Since you are going to be spending some money on an electrician to help you, I suggest you get one who has specific experience with theatrical or concert lighting, so you can also take advantage of their other knowledge.

 

[len]

My suggestion would be to rent a suitable dimming and control system complete with a tie-in set for the generator. 10K of dimming and control shouldn't cost more than about $ 100.00.

Better to waste a few dollars on rental than a lot of dollars on junk.

Ditto. Especially since you may buy once and use once, making your cost per use outrageous, or rent once and use once, which would be much easier and cost effective. Any good rental house will help you get the right things, because they know a first time customer can always turn into a repeat customer.

 

[mstaylor]

Definitely an electrician, you will need some type of distro because most generators will only have two or three circuits. Probably by renting the equipment you can also hire one of their experienced techs to help put all the pieces in place. As you do more events you can learn what you need and how to use it, then make a more informed buying decision or be able to ask more defined questions.
When somebody has no experience tries to put lights in the air it is a big red flag. There are some many things to know and noway for us to answer all the questions. Besides the scheduling issues, there are major safety and electrical issues that you need to be aware of. As you plan the event and the rental company asks questions, come here and run them by us and hopefully we can sort it out for you.

 

[elim29]

Can I be the first to succinctly reccommend that you get someone with experience to help you out, even if its just for the 1st time you get this going. Even hooking up the lights to the generator with out dimmer control needs some sort of knowledge base. I would rather see your budget go to someone who knows what they are doing rather than a bunch of gear that you don't know the conventions of putting together properly.

A public park is a thoroughly...public...venue. The public's safety is paramount in this situation (truthfully in any venue situation) and I would hate to see budget be the presiding factor in how the lights are set up. Rigging, electricity, egress, fire safety. All these issues are present in a theatrical situation and, especially in a public park, are hopefully under greater scrutiny.

What city are you in? Perhaps the forum can lead you to someone who can lend a hand?

Oh trust me. I'll be the first person to acknowledge my inefficiency when it comes to technical things, hence the reason why I posted on this forum in the first place. I am relieved to say that there will be experts doing the actual set-up on the day-of.

I still do need to know the logistics of what it'll mean for my budget to buy the equipment. Even if I do hire someone for the set-up, I'm still going to need the price of what it'll cost me for getting the equipment in the first place. I work for a city, hence the importance of being very specific and resourceful when putting the budget together, especially since we are working with taxpayers' money. That's why I'm trying to understand how everything works, not necessarily so that I can put it together, but so that I can understand the parts I'll need and how much they'll cost.

If our budget fits the lighting system, we'll be putting the lighting system to good use many times in a year, so it's not such a budget-friendly idea to rent every time. In the situation that we can't afford the entire system just yet, we'll be opting for simply connecting the lights to power. So, if someone could simply explain to me all the necessary equipment I would need to do this, I would be extremely thankful.

Oh, and thanks for thinking about the issue of safety. Let me assure you we'll be taking all measures to keep the public from any and/or potential harm.

 

[elim29]

What kind of lamp is in each fresnel? That is really going to be the deciding factor on what kind of dimmers you buy. If you have 500w lamps, something like 5 of these: 4 channel DMX Dimmer Pack would work. To control it, any DMX lighting console would work, from PC based to simple analog such as one of these: MATRIX Stage 24ch. Lighting Console would do it.

Granted, this is all pretty low quality gear that will work for you for a decent amount of time. Its not meant to be moved daily and used 365 days a year. It will work for you, however expect to throw at least one dimmer pack out every once and awhile.

If this is a solid one off, you might want to consider renting.

I want to say they are 750W, but not 100% sure. I can find out for you once I get into the office. If I got several dimmer racks, how would I go about connecting all of them to one control board?

 

[Cadmium6855]

I want to say they are 750W, but not 100% sure. I can find out for you once I get into the office. If I got several dimmer racks, how would I go about connecting all of them to one control board?

Well, first step is finding out the type of equipment, then someone on the forum can tell you what connects, what, ect. Once you get into the office, find makes and models on the lights and generator and anything else you plan on using, then we can help you out more.

And, as meatpopsicle said "What city are you in? Perhaps the forum can lead you to someone who can lend a hand?" There are many people who will be willing to help in different cities across the country, at least start with the state, use your resources, this forum is one of the best you have.

It says on your profile you are in SoCal, so am I, what city, when is the event, if you need it I would be happy to help out.

 

[Les]

I want to say they are 750W, but not 100% sure. I can find out for you once I get into the office. If I got several dimmer racks, how would I go about connecting all of them to one control board?

If you buy a dimmer rack, you will most likely want something like an ETC Sensor touring rack.

Trust me, connecting the dimmers to the control board is the easy part. If you have one dimmer rack, you just run one low voltage DMX line between them. If you are connecting several dimmer racks (or dimmer packs), you will daisy chain the dimmer packs together with the aforementioned DMX cable, with one final DMX home run to the board.

Some differences in terms to be aware of:

Dimmer Rack - Enclosure containing thirty-six or more dimmers, most often 48 or 96 dimmers. Dimmers of 1.2kw or 2.4kw are often in dual modules, thus a 48 module rack often contains 96 dimmers. Portable versions, aka, "road racks" or "touring racks," have casters, and are engineered to take the abuses of transport. Install racks are floor mounted, and do not have extra features such as inter-patch and convenience outlets.

Dimmer Pack - An enclosure containing one to twelve (occasionally twenty-four) dimmers. Portable versions usually do not have casters, as they are light enough to be carried by 1-2 persons. They can however, be built into a roadcase to allow for easier transport. Install versions are often wall-mounted with accessory brackets. Some are intended to be mounted in a rack to form a larger system.
Small, 4-6 channel packs are often referred to as "shoebox dimmers" because of their similarities in size and shape to a shoe box.

For a large system, you will probably need touring dimmer racks for ease of setup and higher electrical capacity. Many (but not all) dimmer packs carry a rating of only 600 watts per channel, while dimmer racks often carry 1800-2400w per channel. Dimmer racks are located in a central location near the power source, while dimmer packs are located near the lights - each unit will need at least 30 amps fed to it, as well as a DMX [signal] line (controlling approximately four channels of lighting each). These systems are difficult to troubleshoot once in the air. Dimmer racks generally distribute their power to the lights through multi cable. Sometimes, this multi cable will feed connector strips.

 

[jeffsw6]

Oh, and thanks for thinking about the issue of safety. Let me assure you we'll be taking all measures to keep the public from any and/or potential harm.

Contact your city's electrical/code inspector and ask them for help. They should be qualified to steer you in the right direction on power distribution, or if they aren't, they should be able to refer you to a reputable electrical contractor.

You probably won't get much more helpful information from the forum until you can post more specific details about your light fixtures/bulbs. The reason is fairly simple; a dimmer channel may be rated for 10 amps. This could mean six to eight 150w bulbs or just two 500w bulbs. It's like you are asking, "what do I need to wire my house," but you haven't told anyone how large it is, so the answer is "it depends."

 

[derekleffew]

...So, if someone could simply explain to me all the necessary equipment I would need to do this, I would be extremely thankful. ...

You're going to need a power distribution panel, whose input is feeder cable (60A-200A) from the generator, and output is a quantity of 15A or 20A circuits. One possibility: PowerHOUSE™ Portable Distribution Boxes: Pagoda with Duplex Receptacle Outlets | Lex Products . Note you cannot simply go to the big orange or big blue store and buy a circuit breaker panel and outlets and build one, as the devices and construction must meet the standards of UL 1640.

You may find that a dimmer pack is the least expensive solution. I'm reminded of a quote:

This follows ST's long-held theory of dimmer economics:

"A dimmer rack is a distribution panel with some free dimmers".

And it's just that, when you factor in the cost of getting from 100,000A of available fault current (on a typical 800A feeder) down to 10,000A of Short Circuit Current Rating on a 20A branch circuit. You can't do it with a single breaker panel, you need many of them--with the associated labor to wire them up.

Do the math with multiple breaker panels and then with modern, high-SCCR dimmer racks: the dimmers are free. ...

 

[BillESC]

To control 20 - 500w fresnels, I'd suggest looking at an NSI/Leviton NDS-12-1EO, this will give you 12 circuits of 1.2kW. The MAP price for this dimmer pack is $ 2369.02 and you'll need, at the very minimum a N7008-D00 controller which MAPs at $ 447.93

These are the kinds of numbers involved which is outside of the $ 300.00 budget you expressed and why I suggested renting.

 

[mstaylor]

Not to discourage from buying equipment but in addition to the dimmers and dimmer control, you will need all the cables to get to the lights. Also you will need some type of truss and trees to put it on. I would suggest renting a large portion of your first shows, then buy as you are certain what it is that works for your application.