No balcony: motorized yoke followspot on ceiling?

[cprted]

Thanks for the OSHA links. However, there is one snag with regard to those regulations. They say "the employee will..."

Um, these are not employees. They are students. So how do those rules apply to students?

Just because OSHA doesn't apply, doesn't mean you should be allowing students to operate outside of what OSHA considers safe practice. Those rules are in place for a reason.

 

[cdub260]

The US OSHA regulations apply to private industry employers and their employees. Strictly speaking, OSHA has no authority over students (or volunteers). A consideration in your case is that OSHA does not apply to public employees. Some state OSH agencies do include public employees, but Wisconsin does not appear to be one of them (See the OSHA website and click State Programs on the right). (Most federal agencies use OSHA.)

But even though one is not under the authority of US OSHA, one can still use their regulations.

Joe

True enough, but bear in mind that these regulations are considered to be accepted standards for the proper use of lifts and will likely be referenced in the lawsuit that follows the accident. Also, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the school district has policies in place that specify that students, volunteers, staff and faculty will follow proper safety procedures, even if those proper procedures aren't specified.

 

[SHARYNF]

In my experience if there is an accident it does not matter if you followed the rules or not you are going to get sued. reason is that the insurance company that is supposed to pay will automatically not pay, and will force the injured party to sue. Sad to say but fact is the US does not have JUSTICE system it has a LEGAL system. If you expect to find truth and justice in the legal system, you are going to be very disappointed

It is because of this that most schools refuse to let any student on any lift etc, which is why I was suggesting that despite the fact that it certainly is not an ideal solution, some sort of remote control for a ML usually is needed.

Again it might vary by district but students especially in high school on scaffolds or lifts is problematic no matter how well the OSHA rules are followed.
Sharyn

 

[Kelite]

Wow- it looks as though the possible choices fall among two distinct options:

1) Getting the existing followspot much higher, which has its own collection of challenges-

2) Mounting either a moving light or a 750W S4 type fixture to a moving yoke at the ceiling level. A cage of sorts often solves basketball/volleyball damage and is close enough to the fixture as to not interfere with the light beam.


I may have missed the info from your original post, but what is the ceiling height in the space?

 

[DMahalko]

Yes, the liability issues of having students up on a scissor lift is definitely the biggest problem. There would probably have to be multiple levels of consent before students would be allowed to formally participate in lift-access in the theater program.

1. parent or guardian consent
2. maintenance staff consent
3. district administrator consent
4. school board consent

If lift-platform access privileges were to be a formal part of the theater program, some sort of rules and policies would need to be written for the student handbook. I would expect that there would have to be extremely strict behavior rules for students on or near the lift platform:

• No goofing off - no pushing, shoving, or intentional destabilizing of a raised lift with someone on it "as a joke".
• No intetional pushing or fighting with other students near the base of the lift.
• No showing off - no "look at me" acrobatic stunts such as standing on or balancing on the handrails, or doing handstands on the rails
• No leaning over the handrails for any reason. If the lift must be moved to reach something then that is what will be done. (Many scissor lifts can be safely moved in the raised position anyway.)
• No intentional dropping or throwing of objects from the lift platform, such as pens, pencils, coins, books, basketballs
• No intentional swaying/rocking of lift
• No eating or drinking while on lift
• Must have adult supervision present at all times. If a lone adult supervisor must leave the area for any reason, students must disembark and stay off the lift.
• Must receive safety training, explanation of rules, and must pass a graded essay-format test before being permitted to work on the lift platform.

Due to the risk for lawsuits from injuries and the potential for damage to lift equipment and the building itself, I think that it would have to be made very clear to the students that we are making a special exception by permitting them to work on or near the lift platform.

Any intentional unsafe activities could result in immediate suspension of height-access privileges and probably also school disciplinary action, if the situation is severe enough.

Irony, rebellion, and doing stuff against the rules behind the backs of adults is very popular amongst high school students, but "I was only joking" can never be an excuse for doing something risky on a lift platform. The liability and risk of injury from unsafe behaviors is too high to joke about it.

,

In this discussion of allowing students to be way up high on lifts, I would assume that there are similar issues with students working on lighting catwalks and balconies that just have an open tubular handrail.

So how do high schools with auditoriums handle that? What kind of safety and disciplinary policies do they have to deal with the issues of students working on catwalks?

Are there any existing student "working at heights" safety policies that anyone can link to as examples?

,

For me, this is very much a theoretical discussion. I doubt permission for this could get off the ground without a very formal safety plan, with example rules and regulations written up in advance, to present to the school board. Discussion of potentially permitting this activity would most likely end up printed in the local newspaper in the board minutes.

In light of all the formalities of needing to win community and board support for even allowing this, the remote-control ground-steerable followspot seems to me to be a heck of a lot simpler option.

- Dale Mahalko

 

[Kelite]

Then I would submit the Right Arm as an affordable means to position a fixture above the crowd in a caged environment. (Not the 'crowd in a caged environment', however )

This approach has been successfully solved by Apollo dealer Chicago Spotlight with an 'off the shelf' Right Arm cage for this specific purpose.

Info may be obtained by speaking with Marty of Chicago Spotlight @ (312)455-1171.

 

[Footer]

When I was teaching in a Performing Arts High School we had both a vertical man lift and a scissor lift. Before any of the students used either lift we went though common safety stuff like how to get someone down if they lose power or are injured. I had on incedent of kids goofing off in our genie lift and I did not see that student for 2 weeks after the incedent. They enjoyed their time in in school suspension reading boring text books.

High school students are capable of being in lifts. If you trust your students with saws, you can trust them with a lift.

 

[jwl868]

Regarding student capabilities, I agree with Footer. We rented a high school for a show and they typically kept their upstage traveler curtains permanently closed with a zip tie up at the rail. I wanted to be able to open and close the traveler, and I asked the high school’s TD if it could be untied. He said sure, and soon after a couple students brought in the scissors lift went up and unclipped it.

Joe

 

[PeteEngel]

or...in lieu of theatrical resources, you could either get an adult volunteer or pay for a stagehand...it doesn't really help teach operation to the kids, but it does bypass the need for A: all the consent and training required and 2: potentially expensive technical modifications and training/maintenace, etc...

 

[mstaylor]

I am a firm believer in letting kids do as much as they can. This different for different kids and need to handled on a case by case basis. Some kids should never be allowed to handle power tools or lifts because they just aren't mature enough. Others are perfectly capable and should be given as mush responsibility as possible. I have five high schools in my imediate area and they range from not allowing the kids to touch anything light board or sound board wise. Others have completely student run theatres. One school that has a no touch policy is next door to my house which my son attended. When he was going to do a senior class play they said they needed to hire a professional lighting tech because they weren't allowed. I had to go in and be "certified' by the county to run the board. After 5 minutes of instruction, I started showing my instructor some shortcuts that she didn't know. I promptly allowed my son run the show.
Now, in respect to lifts, ANYBODY, student or adult must be instructed in the safe use of a lift. I am a lift and forklift instructor. I have adult stagehands that I would never let near a lift. My 21 yr old and 16 yr old are both certified on lifts. I haven't let either one cert on fork yet. My older son is one of my riggers and both are experienced in climbing Mountain stages. If I don't think a kid can handle a job, I don't teach him.
Do schools that don't allow kids in lifts, can they climb ladders?