No balcony: motorized yoke followspot on ceiling?

[DMahalko]

I help out with a small-school gymnatorium theater program with very limited theatrical resources. We don't have balconies, catwalks, a control room, rigging or a fly system, etc etc.

One of the challenges is that if we want to use a followspot, we cannot get it up in the air very high without serious safety/fall risks for the student operators. A raised platform about five feet off the floor is about the best we can manage:

In general this works because it is not blocked by the audience, who sit in folding chairs on the gym floor in front of the spot, but it is blinding for the actors because it shines head-on about level with the stage into their face. It's pretty much impossible to get it up overhead.

,

One possibility that MIGHT work is a ceiling mounted motor-steered followspot, with motorized iris and focus, and solenoid operated color gels.

This could be manually controlled from a console in the lap of a student with an analog joystick, sliders for iris / focus, and toggle switches for in/out movement of the color gels. (Maybe we could adapt a USB XBOX controller for the job...)

I've been looking around for something like this that could adapt onto the top of an Altman Luminator followspot to motorize the various control levers but so far it appears nothing exists to do this.

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There is an X-Y motorizing yoke for ellipsoidal fixtures but it is quite expensive for our limited budget, in the $3500+ range for one fully automated yoke, not including the fixture itself.

City Theatrical - AutoYoke for S4 / Strand SL
CITY THEATRICAL
Pan / Tilt AutoYoke - $2350
AutoIris control for S4 - $475
AutoFocus control for S4 - $650

I have no experience with the ETC S4. I have no idea if it could be bright enough to used by itself as a followspot.

,

The alternative is a small fully packaged followspot for around $1000-2000, but I do not know if these have the precise control needed to do accurate slow tracking of actors on stage.

Possibilities:

Chauvet - Legend 1200E Spot
Products Legend? 1200E Spot | CHAUVET Lighting

American DJ - Accu-Spot 575
American DJ Homepage

Elektralite - My575.3
http://www.myelektralite.com/m/p/ELE_BRC_090204_0001.pdf

Mega Lite - Axis 600
Mega-Lite | The Power of Light

Also I don't know if the beam diameter of these would be big enough or the lamp bright enough, or if it is just meant to be used as a moving-lighted-circle fog-beam dance-party style effect, rather than for serious theatrical lighting use.

,

And finally, I cannot find any source for a DMX manual hand-control system for live steering of a motorized followspot.

Either nobody has thought of trying to do this before, or it has been tried but does not work very well.

I'm leaning in the direction that this is a novel idea that nobody has tried. "Theater followspots are hand operated, with someone standing behind it waggling the thing around by hand, and always will be, period!"

- Dale Mahalko

 

[cprted]

Give these threads a read.

http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting/15470-auto-followspots.html

http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting/11347-follow-spot.html

 

[SHARYNF]

you might be able to use a ML and get a board that has a joystick.
I did this for a site using a ML and a Elation Show designer 1 which had the option for fine control and a joystick. Worked, is it as good as a man'ed follow spot, but then from an operations stand point it made things easier

Sharyn

 

[soundlight]

In a high school, the money could probably be spent better. Also, it's very hard to follow someone with a joystick, and much easier with an actual followspot. No one does this because when they do, they use a moving light and it's written in to cues and not controlled live.

If you're going to do this, the way to do it is a Source Four 19 degree lamped at 750 watts, a Rosco I-Cue, and an Apollo EZ Iris DMX.

 

[shiben]

soundlight, use a right arm instead, it will have more range. DMahalko, is that just the tallest scaffold you have, or do you have one that goes higher? If you could find someone near you who knows how to properly use fall protection, you can probably figure out a way to have students working safely much higher than that. Another option is if you have a skyjack platform lift, this can be used to spot from. Its not the best option, but its a lot better than trying to get a ML to go where you want it to using the clunky controls on a console, even if it had a joystick.

On the topic of a ML as a spotlight though, someone needs to make a controller that has a 22" video display, and uses an xbox 360 controller to change all the various parameters. Attach a video camera that can see in the dark to the light, and put a crosshairs in the center. Next, make all the parameters unlocks that you need to hit the correct person a specific number of times before you can open other things, say, color. Then, half the techs I regularly work with could pick up just about anything, and stick with it, and finding a followspot op would be child's play (oh those of the generation of overdeveloped thumbs and gunning for unlocks, lets hear it!).

 

[SHARYNF]

Don't laugh put that is along the lines of what I have played with:

I use a ML instead of a I cue so that I can mount a small wireless Camera on to the ML head. It does feed a monitor, but instead of a xbox I use a showdesigner 1 with the joystick, this ML is NOT connected to the rest of the lighting setup, just as a remote control for the "ML Follow spot" Some of the older Showdesigners could work with a track ball

Is it perfect, no is it weird, sure but I do find that students with lots of FPS experience on games pick up on it pretty quickly and will use it

The problem with the I cue IMHO is that you cannot use any sort of video camera for positioning since it is a mirror based system, you still have the issues of the positioning controller/human interface

Anyway not traditional but then again from the land of Duct tape ...;-)

Sharyn

 

[DMahalko]

soundlight, use a right arm instead, it will have more range. DMahalko, is that just the tallest scaffold you have, or do you have one that goes higher? If you could find someone near you who knows how to properly use fall protection, you can probably figure out a way to have students working safely much higher than that. Another option is if you have a skyjack platform lift, this can be used to spot from.

There is more scaffolding, but it is for building maintenance staff use only. I seriously doubt anyone would allow a student up on a scaffold some 25 feet high even with fall protection gear. I'm also not sure how the students would get up there without climbing a practically straight-up stepladder.

We do have a Genie lift, but it is the smallest capacity version that can be loaded by two people onto the back of a pickup truck, and is intended just to lift a single person in a very small cage.

A two-person Skyjack could accomodate a followspot and operator on the platform, but new Skyjacks are $20,000+. Though looking on eBay, perhaps we could afford a used 2-person Skyjack in the $7,000 or less range, and which could also be used for other building maintenance projects.

On the topic of a ML as a spotlight though, someone needs to make a controller that has a 22" video display, and uses an xbox 360 controller to change all the various parameters. Attach a video camera that can see in the dark to the light, and put a crosshairs in the center. Next, make all the parameters unlocks that you need to hit the correct person a specific number of times before you can open other things, say, color. Then, half the techs I regularly work with could pick up just about anything, and stick with it, and finding a followspot op would be child's play (oh those of the generation of overdeveloped thumbs and gunning for unlocks, lets hear it!).

I wasn't thinking about seeing the stage from the point of view of the spotlight but you are correct, that would give the best possible remote control. It'd be just like steering a cannon barrel in a first-person shooter game.

If you don't mind using analog video technology, standard fixed-mount security CCTV cameras would easily adapt for this purpose. Many have an auto-iris to deal with very bright and dark areas, and there can be remote control zoom and focus controls via RS-485 (similar to DMX):

Samsung SCC C4301, around $400
Samsung SCC C4301 - Google Product Search

* Low light camera, .02 lux minimum scene illumination
* Dual voltage (12v DC / 24v AC)
* 1/4" sensor size, Color DSP, 480 TV lines of resolution
* 3.6-79.2mm motorized zoom


Perhaps these posts will help to spur formal development of a remote controllable followspot with a low-light zoom camera option, and with support for dual-analog-stick game controllers.

- Dale Mahalko

 

[Axislights]

I'd use a 19' Scissor lift. No climbing involved, runs off a edison cord, usually with some sort of power connection up on the platform as well. You could also have the student harnessed and saftied to the railing. I'd check your local regs and the district policy on this, but I know some districts that use these for focusing the theatre lights in thier performance spaces. You could also rent these locally just for the day/week if needed. Around here they rent for about $90 a day with $100 delivery charge.
Genie Scissor GS(tm)-1530 & GS(tm)-1930 Lifts

 

[Footer]

I have used standard single person genie manlifts (AWP 30s in this case) as follow spot positions. I mounted a Source 4 on a stick on the basket and the operator was able to run the show without any issue. I think you are going to have to leave the idea of having a real followspot in either of these situations. A 5 deg S4 with a followspot kit from city theatrical will give the same results as a spotlight under 4k. Being a person that taught in a public high school.... is there going to be P.E. class in the gym while this camera/leko/rightarm thing is going to be hanging in the air?

 

[mstaylor]

The scissor lift or single man lift neither requires fall protection. You can use it but it isn't required. Now if you have more pipe scaffold you could use the single man lift to access it but you would have to have some type of fall protection to make the transfer. Something similar to an arrestor used on a wire rope ladder would work. You would have to have a trained rigger install the arrest equipment.

 

[PeteEngel]

As much as it sounds like a good idea to start packing technology on top of technology to try and improve on an idea, you end up being stuck if one aspect of that technology fails. A followspot is a simple device (initially). a light source that is manually operated to highlight a subject (for example). Your dilemma isn't, unfortunately, unique. As a long time followspot operator that has sat on a light thinking how great it would be to have a helmet operated sighting system with servo-driven pan/tilt and console operated color (and also now working for a manufacturer that offers a followspot with full color mixing, but that is another story), all of those things are technologically possible...but also probably not going to happen as a full release product. there are some products out there that use existing technology to make a mover into a followspot (the autopilot system from Wybron (?) was one, i would think that there are others...for your situation i would lean toward simpler is better. a lift rental with your existing unit. the extra money could easily go toward other aspects of the show. Or you could build something that totally changes the way people thing abou followspots...who knows?

 

[SHARYNF]

The problem most schools have is they will freakout having a student up on more than a single layer of scaffolding or up in the air on man lift.

So folks will continue to dream and improvise

Sharyn

 

[cdub260]

The scissor lift or single man lift neither requires fall protection. You can use it but it isn't required. Now if you have more pipe scaffold you could use the single man lift to access it but you would have to have some type of fall protection to make the transfer. Something similar to an arrestor used on a wire rope ladder would work. You would have to have a trained rigger install the arrest equipment.

In regards to whether or not fall protection is required on a lift, it depends on the type of lift.

I pulled this off the OSHA website.

Question 1: What OSHA standards (the aerial lift requirements in §1926.453 or the mobile scaffold requirements in §1926.452(w)) apply to standard vertical manlifts, such as scissors lifts and "Genie lifts"?

How to determine when the aerial lift requirements apply
The aerial lift requirements (§1926.453) incorporate by reference the definition of aerial lifts used in the American National Standards Institute (ANSI) A92.2-1969 standard. Therefore, these requirements apply to equipment identified in that 1969 ANSI consensus standard as aerial lifts. The ANSI standard definition includes certain vehicle-mounted elevating and rotating work platforms, namely "extensible boom platforms," "aerial ladders," "articulating boom platforms," "vertical towers," and "a combination of any of the above."

Scissors lifts
Because scissors lifts do not fall within any of these categories, scissors lifts are not addressed by the aerial lift provisions of Subpart L. There are no OSHA provisions that specifically address scissors lifts; but, since scissor lifts do meet the definition of a scaffold (§1926.451), employers must comply with the other applicable provisions of Subpart L when using scissors lifts. Since scissors lifts are mobile, the specific requirements for mobile scaffolds in the scaffold standard (§1926.452(w)) must be met.

NOTE: On January 7, 1997, OSHA issued a Directive [ CPL 02-01-023 (formerly CPL 2-1.23)] titled " Inspection procedures for Enforcing Subpart L, Scaffolds Used in Construction - 29 CFR 1926.450-454." In that directive, OSHA erroneously stated that "scissors lifts are addressed by §1926.453." This letter revokes and supercedes that statement; we are in the process of marking the 1997 directive that is on the Internet accordingly.

"Genie lifts"
With respect to "Genie lifts," we note first that there are many different types of lifts manufactured by the Genie company. However, many employers use the term "Genie lift" to refer to this company's mobile, extensible boom lift. Mobile, extensible boom lifts do meet the 1969 ANSI definition of an aerial lift. Therefore, the aerial lift provisions contained in §1926.453 apply to that company's mobile, extensible boom lifts.

Question 2: Are employees required to be tied-off when working in the basket of a "standard vertical manlift?"

Answer: Your use of the term "standard vertical manlift" encompasses a variety of different types of equipment, some of which would meet the 1969 ANSI definition of an aerial lift, and so be covered by the aerial lift provisions, and some of which would not meet that definition, and would be covered by the other scaffold provisions. The requirements for tying-off differ depending on whether the equipment is considered an aerial lift.

Tie-off requirements for equipment covered by the aerial lift provisions (§1926.453)
Section 1926.453(b)(2)(v) provides that employees must be tied-off "when working from an aerial lift." A body belt is permitted only if it is part of a restraint system (a system that prevents the worker from being exposed to any fall). Otherwise, a body harness must be used and the equipment must meet the requirements of a fall arrest system in §1926.502.

The purpose of this requirement is to protect employees from being bounced out/off of the basket/work platform when maneuvering to a work location, or placing themselves in a position in which they could be exposed to a fall by climbing/leaning over and placing their center of gravity outside the basket.

Tie-off requirements for equipment covered by the other scaffold provisions (§1926.451, 1926.452, 1926.454)
As discussed above, scissors lifts are covered by the non-aerial lift portions of the scaffold standard. Therefore, §1926.451(g) applies, which requires that employees on a scaffold more than 10 feet above a lower level must be protected from falling by restraint systems, fall arrest systems, or guardrails (Note: the standard mandates guardrails for some types of scaffolds). Tying-off is not required where protection is afforded by guardrails.

Based on the above, a standard Genie AWP lift would be considered an aerial platform and therefore requires fall protection.

Here are a few of the more pertinent regulations for our industry regarding aerial lifts.

1926.453(b)(2)(iii)

Belting off to an adjacent pole, structure, or equipment while working from an aerial lift shall not be permitted.

1926.453(b)(2)(iv)

Employees shall always stand firmly on the floor of the basket, and shall not sit or climb on the edge of the basket or use planks, ladders, or other devices for a work position.

1926.453(b)(2)(v)

A body belt shall be worn and a lanyard attached to the boom or basket when working from an aerial lift.

Note to paragraph (b)(2)(v): As of January 1, 1998, subpart M of this part (1926.502(d)) provides that body belts are not acceptable as part of a personal fall arrest system. The use of a body belt in a tethering system or in a restraint system is acceptable and is regulated under 1926.502(e).

1926.453(b)(2)(vi)

Boom and basket load limits specified by the manufacturer shall not be exceeded.

1926.453(b)(2)(vii)

The brakes shall be set and when outriggers are used, they shall be positioned on pads or a solid surface. Wheel chocks shall be installed before using an aerial lift on an incline, provided they can be safely installed.

1926.453(b)(2)(viii)

An aerial lift truck shall not be moved when the boom is elevated in a working position with men in the basket, except for equipment which is specifically designed for this type of operation in accordance with the provisions of paragraphs (a)(1) and (2) of this section.

A scissor lift would be considered a mobile scaffold so the guard rail would be considered the fall protection system.

Here are a few of the more pertinent regulations for our industry regarding scaffolding.

1926.451(g)

"Fall protection."

1926.451(g)(1)

Each employee on a scaffold more than 10 feet (3.1 m) above a lower level shall be protected from falling to that lower level. Paragraphs (g)(1)(i) through (vii) of this section establish the types of fall protection to be provided to the employees on each type of scaffold. Paragraph (g)(2) of this section addresses fall protection for scaffold erectors and dismantlers.

Note to paragraph (g)(1): The fall protection requirements for employees installing suspension scaffold support systems on floors, roofs, and other elevated surfaces are set forth in subpart M of this part.

1926.451(g)(1)(i)

Each employee on a boatswains' chair, catenary scaffold, float scaffold, needle beam scaffold, or ladder jack scaffold shall be protected by a personal fall arrest system;

1926.451(g)(1)(ii)

Each employee on a single-point or two-point adjustable suspension scaffold shall be protected by both a personal fall arrest system and guardrail system;

1926.451(g)(1)(iii)

Each employee on a crawling board (chicken ladder) shall be protected by a personal fall arrest system, a guardrail system (with minimum 200 pound toprail capacity), or by a three-fourth inch (1.9 cm) diameter grabline or equivalent handhold securely fastened beside each crawling board;

1926.451(g)(1)(iv)

Each employee on a self-contained adjustable scaffold shall be protected by a guardrail system (with minimum 200 pound toprail capacity) when the platform is supported by the frame structure, and by both a personal fall arrest system and a guardrail system (with minimum 200 pound toprail capacity) when the platform is supported by ropes;

The OSHA regulations governing aerial lifts can be found here.
Aerial lifts. - 1926.453

The OSHA regulations governing scaffolds can be found here.
General requirements. - 1926.451

Just one final note on the use of PPE for fall protection. Whether or not you are required to use it by OSHA regulations, it's still a good idea. Also, if the manufacturer of the lift in question recommends the use of fall arrest equipment, you should use it.

 

[SHARYNF]

Now you see why I tend to jury rig a ML to do the job in these situations
Sharyn

 

[DMahalko]

Thanks for the OSHA links. However, there is one snag with regard to those regulations. They say "the employee will..."

Um, these are not employees. They are students. So how do those rules apply to students?

,

I have yet to determine how age should factor into the use of fall protection and scissor lifts.

It is probably safe to assume someone aged 18 and older can be given fall arrest training and be permitted to go up on the lift. They can go to war and die for our country, so I suppose we could allow them to perch 25 feet above the gym floor too.

But what about a 16 year old student?

Where exactly should the cutoff point be for "too young to be doing this sort of thing"?

,

Also I note someone mentioned that a "professional rigger" would need to set up safety lines etc. So where do you find those kinds of people? I just googled for fall arrest rigger WI on google and came up with nothing specific.

Plenty of fall arrest equipment for sale, but no obvious guidance for local training on how to use it correctly.

- Dale Mahalko

 

[shiben]

Contact whoever you buy your theater stuff from and ask them for a name of someone who is qualified to do this type of work. I would imagine that they either employ someone, or would be able to hook you up with someone who is able to. Now, I really liked the idea of a source 4 on a stick in the lift, if you can do that.

As for the color changing follow spot thing, I have seen more and more concerts coming through with MLs with the Pan/Tilt system removed and a pair of handles mounted on them. They do color mixing, gobos, iris, etc, all from the console, maybe even in cues, i dont know. This is probably the only type of ML one can really qualify as "intelligent"

 

[mstaylor]

I too like the idea of a source four on the lift as a possible solution. It is the lowest tech and cheapest solution. It isn't perfect but certainly doable. I also see a lot of ML with the pan/tilt disabled, it is a good solution but out of most schools resources.
As far as finding a rigger, your theatre supplier is an option, calling your closest AI local is another or check with any local arena or theatre and they should somebody qualified.
After reading all the OSHA stuff I stand by my original statement that the scissor lifts and vertical one man lifts neither require PPE. I just didn't add the caveat that the handrails must be in place. Most scissor lifts have the option to drop the rails and if so then fall protection is needed.

 

[lieperjp]

Also I note someone mentioned that a "professional rigger" would need to set up safety lines etc. So where do you find those kinds of people? I just googled for fall arrest rigger WI on google and came up with nothing specific.

Plenty of fall arrest equipment for sale, but no obvious guidance for local training on how to use it correctly.

- Dale Mahalko

Google Mainstage Theatrical Supply in Milwaukee... I'm only saying that because I've worked with them before. I know you're in northwest WI so they may not be able to help you themselves but they may be able to suggest someone closer to you (Duluth would probably be the most likely, or Green Bay.) Perhaps someone in the Duluth area could help with a suggestion?

 

[jwl868]

Thanks for the OSHA links. However, there is one snag with regard to those regulations. They say "the employee will..."

Um, these are not employees. They are students. So how do those rules apply to students?

The US OSHA regulations apply to private industry employers and their employees. Strictly speaking, OSHA has no authority over students (or volunteers). A consideration in your case is that OSHA does not apply to public employees. Some state OSH agencies do include public employees, but Wisconsin does not appear to be one of them (See the OSHA website and click State Programs on the right). (Most federal agencies use OSHA.)

But even though one is not under the authority of US OSHA, one can still use their regulations.

Joe

 

[shiben]

The US OSHA regulations apply to private industry employers and their employees. Strictly speaking, OSHA has no authority over students (or volunteers). A consideration in your case is that OSHA does not apply to public employees. Some state OSH agencies do include public employees, but Wisconsin does not appear to be one of them (See the OSHA website and click State Programs on the right). (Most federal agencies use OSHA.)

But even though one is not under the authority of US OSHA, one can still use their regulations.

Joe

I think that the general consensus that OSHA is a good place to look to make house regulations, mainly because thats their job to figure out how to avoid accidents. Yeah, you might not be required to follow them by law, but why not follow them anyhow? Better safe than sorry!