Design No Haze Allowed... Need Some Ideas!

[thelightguy87]

So I am head of tech for a production company that has contracted with a banquet hall to produce concerts. We had our first show in September and although it went well, I hit many barriers. Most of the information I receieved from the venue turned out to be either inconsistent to what I found in the space, or just incorrect. We found out the hard way after being reassured that the fire detection system was heat sensors only. It turns out they are particle sensors.

The rig I had brought in for lighting, as I'm also the LD, was designed with the idea of using haze. so a variety of movers and led pars.

Our first show was a local show, to create the awareness of the venue, and see how many people would show up. We had about 350 people. That night the max occupancy was probably 400. Because of tables and chairs just taking up space. Now we have it emptied out so that we have an 800 Capacity room and are bringing in Lucky Boys Confusion on day 2 of a 2 day festival. I'm now challenged to design a rig, compiled of LED Par 64's, a few Par 56's and a few scanners, and whatever I can rent, to have a good show with no haze in the air.

I have about a $1000 budget for renting equipment. for 2 days.
I'm looking for ideas in terms of equipment to get that will be useful without haze. I'm considering more LEDs to light the room up more and maybe a backdrop, I know the band will have a backdrop, but I don't think it will fit in our room due to low ceilings. 12' ceilings. I can't really hang much from the ceiling due to the location of the ceiling truss beams.

I'm sort of considering some LED screens. I'm not sure how much they would cost to rent for 1 or 2 days. But I would need a media server too.

I almost never have to do a show without haze, so I'm just looking for any ideas that I can incorporate into my shows, as it looks like we'll be throwing a lot of concerts in this ball room, and the outlook of getting a firewatch isn't looking very good.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[soundlight]

Small LED video screens in multiples - 4 or 5 vertical bars of low res screens across the back, 2 or 3 feet wide, 6 to 10 feet tall, spaced evenly. Also, blinders with CXIs on them. Mole 4-lights maybe? Or those MR-16 twenty-light blinders, almost same form factor as a 9-light if I remember right. More effective than movers in a no-haze situation - even when lighting the band. They become more of a part of the set because of the 4 sources in one large unit, and the CXI gives you quick color changing.

 

[kicknargel]

I'd think about some kind of scenic element that can take light. Good 'ol white spandex stretch shapes (I also do a lot with coroplast) take LED and mover light well, either back or front.

This has of course been done in a million iterations for corporate and music production. Take a look at more or any corporate production web sites for ideas.

Nicholas Kargel
You Want What? Productions INC
scenic and lighting design and construction in Denver, CO

www.youwantwhatproductions.com

 

[derekleffew]

...Good 'ol white spandex stretch shapes...

See Transformit | Portfolio | Event and Stretch Shapes from Rose Brand for examples.

Light the performers, not air. Stage lighting existed for a number of years before haze/fog/smoke machines became ubiquitous. Perhaps it's my theatre training, but it galls me to see lighting rigs, often with barely enough fixtures to light the stage, with many/most of them either pointing at the audience or off into space. Beamage is all well and good, but should be secondary and complementary to the stage action. Too many concert designers don't know anything else, other than to make shapes with beams, usually to the detriment of lighting the stage.

 

[mstaylor]

There was a great article a while back about that very thing. It stated that the most important thing was to light the talent, except for dramatic effect. Next you light sets, finally air. You can still do air lighting but it is less effective.

 

[CrazyTechie]

Just throwing out an idea, what you could try to do would be to hand like a clear painters tarp and shine moving lights behind it and it should give it a fuzz or hazy look as long as the tarp isn't 100% clear. We did this for one of our musicals at my school but we did it with cyc lights and it fuzzed out the light and smoothed it throughout the whole tarp so it was an even color, so it should do what you are trying to do.

 

[soundlight]

If you're not going to be able to do LED screens (probably won't at that budget), maybe you could do some of the stretch shapes and/or a backdrop, and then do some nice side and backlight color. Sidelight most importantly. High sides will get more color on to the front of people while letting the frontlight take care of the faces more, and using contrasting colors with the sidelight and backdrop could make for a cool effect.

Also be really specific about to whom you give frontlight and at what intensities throughout the show. I recently saw a show (Great Big Sea) that used 4 small LED screens and 4 molefay 4-lights and a band backdrop lit by LED washes. The best thing about the show was how precisely on the frontlight cues were. The video content was not the best, and the backdrop was a bit generic in how it was lit (rainbow LED chases, some real basic stuff), but the frontlight and blinders (which were seated on the floor) worked together so seamlessly, and there was almost no haze in the venue. Not a moving light to speak of, either. There were some toplight color washes, but I didn't notice them that much because the fixtures were hidden and the frontlight and blinders did most of the work.

 

[JD]

Stage lighting existed for a number of years before haze/fog/smoke machines became ubiquitous.

Ah yes! But we used to rely on that now all-but-extinct creature called the "human smoker." They reliably filled every club, theater, and concert hall with a consistent haze of smoke and suspended ash! In the days where bands evolved into 5 people standing on a stage with no equipment, sets, or even a backdrop, the light diffusion in the air became the sets and the backdrop! Alas, what few remaining smokers that lived are now banished from such environments causing the lighting designers to scramble to an artificial means of recreating the airborne scum that had been so helpful.

In reality, if you are looking to recreate the airborne look, the only way is to increase the intensity of the light by the same reduction number/ratio of missing suspended particles. as this can be 10,000 to one, it is often a losing battle.

 

[thelightguy87]

If you're not going to be able to do LED screens (probably won't at that budget), maybe you could do some of the stretch shapes and/or a backdrop, and then do some nice side and backlight color. Sidelight most importantly. High sides will get more color on to the front of people while letting the frontlight take care of the faces more, and using contrasting colors with the sidelight and backdrop could make for a cool effect.

Also be really specific about to whom you give frontlight and at what intensities throughout the show. I recently saw a show (Great Big Sea) that used 4 small LED screens and 4 molefay 4-lights and a band backdrop lit by LED washes. The best thing about the show was how precisely on the frontlight cues were. The video content was not the best, and the backdrop was a bit generic in how it was lit (rainbow LED chases, some real basic stuff), but the frontlight and blinders (which were seated on the floor) worked together so seamlessly, and there was almost no haze in the venue. Not a moving light to speak of, either. There were some toplight color washes, but I didn't notice them that much because the fixtures were hidden and the frontlight and blinders did most of the work.

This is great to hear...I just had Great Big Sea come through my theatre, not my venue, I too was impressed with how he timed a lot of his cues. I got the ideas for LED screens from that show actually, and have already been doing the blinder effect...sorta...with LED pars...but it doesn't seem to do the same. He did use a lot of haze for our show though. didn't show up as much because he didn't have many hard edged beams, but our theater was filled with it. I'm more so having problems finding who has LED screens that I can rent.

I just changed my front light from Par56s to 6x16s...due to what I could borrow for free...so my front light will be more specific this show. I'm considering throwing my scanners on the FOH pipe. And using them for some GOBO fx on walls and faces for dramatic moments.

I suppose i should mention that I have LED pars surrounding my stage, about 20 of them, so I have a hefty wash on stage for the band. And I'd like to think I've met your "requirements" of Lighting the talent, the set, then the air. We have chandeliers in our ball room and I uplight them. And I've uplit the walls. What I generally try to achieve with haze is beam atmosphere. I don't light the air above the talent. I surround the talent in beams, when the songs call for it...much of what I do does call for it though.

I will look into the scenic back drop ideas. I know Lucky Boys Confusion does bring a back drop, I'm waiting on a new rider from them with details about it. I'm pretty certain it won't fit in my space.

 

[len]

1. Is the Cornerstone the old Ripples Banquets? That place ... I hope the management has changed since I was there last.

2. If you need LED pars, let me know. I have a few for rent. 40 to be exact.

3. For atmospherics, what machine are you using currently? Perhaps an upgrade is warranted.

4. What does LBC rider say? Anything?

5. If LBC is typical of the types of acts you're going to get, you'll need atmosphere. It's pretty much expected these days. Perhaps a phone call to your fire alarm service provider is in order. Maybe they (since they're supposedly maintaining the system) will have some guidance on using atmospherics.

 

[thelightguy87]

Yes, thats the one! And yes, new management. The place is run by a couple brothers, and the brother who technically bought the place, happens to be the president of the Darien Chamber of Commerce. He's been calling Tri State Fire Department about options, but haven't had much luck. And the brother who manages the place, although he's cool to work with, doesn't have a lot of technical information for me.

Essentially the responses I get about having any atmosphere in the room are constantly a no. They are expecting to max out the capacity of that ballroom. And from what i've heard, they are trying to avoid having a fire marshal there for fire watch and realize hey you've reached 100 people over capacity. I wouldn't put it past the promoter to try to do that.

This is the setup I did for the last concert, which was just a local concert, but the first in that room.

The rider I got originally was from their 2005 tour and it just asks for a 40k par rig and 3 lekos. That wouldn't work in this room anyways. The problems came from Stubhy, the singer of LBC, being at my first show there, and at about the 5th of the 7 bands, when it got really heavy metal, I used a lot of strobes, and he wasn't into that, but I generally use a lot of strobes for heavy metal, and a lot of chases. So its more of the band itself pushing for better production. I'm not opposed to the challenge, but everything I have programmed for the rig I own used designed to get a lot of fx from haze.

how much per par for 2 days would you be willing to rent them for?


I have a Martin Magnum 650 Fogger, a cheap chinese brand 1500w fogger, and now have access to a radiance hazer.