Loudspeakers Off-Stage monitors

[2mojo2]

At the high school where I serve as Tecnical Director, the amplifier rack is up in the light booth. The engineer who designed the system did not anticipate the need for a monitor in the booth, but it really needs one.
The school's A/V guy solved this by plugging a speaker cable into a spare speakon output on one of the main amps and connecting it to a monitor speaker.
This works, but the volume is deafening.

I found one of my light techs turning down the mains to adjust HIS volume.
After I got over the impulse to wring his neck, I started looking for a solution.

There is no pass-through line level signal on the amp, so I do not have the option of installing a small powered monitor for Lights.

A passive monitor with a volume control, like one of my old Peavey wedges, should do the job.
School accounting methods tend to favor new equipment over used, so I am looking at current models.
I am having trouble finding a new monitor that meets my specs:
Passive, 8-12 inch woofer, power handling around 200 Watts, prefer speakon input,
Must have volume control.

I would also be open to a volume control that I could add to the speaker line.

Any wise suggestions?

 

[DaveySimps]

Any reason why you would not consider an active speaker? Most have volume control, plus you could split or "y" the input you are trying to monitor, which is usually quite easy. Is there a budget you are trying to stay within?

~Dave

 

[Dillon]

Dave's right: no need to power up a signal that hot if you are just going to turn it down again. Look at small powered monitors - Anchor, Fostex, Galaxy are just a few that have proven track records.

 

[2mojo2]

Powered monitors need line level input.
I could use a Y connection to pull line level from the input on the main amp, halving the signal level available to the main amp.
We could compensate for that.

Apart from giving me lots of choices of active monitors, what advantage does that approach offer as compared to a passive monitor tapped into a parallel speaker output?

 

[DuckJordan]

Powered monitors need line level input.
I could use a Y connection to pull line level from the input on the main amp, halving the signal level available to the main amp.
We could compensate for that.

Apart from giving me lots of choices of active monitors, what advantage does that approach offer as compared to a passive monitor tapped into a parallel speaker output?

The ability to move it out of that room if you get an update. The biggest thing is what happens when you need some monitor speakers somewhere else or your amp goes bad?

Putting active monitors in your rooms would also allow more portability with them, Say in the future you do work in another venue that doesn't have monitors for their booth either? then you could just bring yours in and tap into the main source.

 

[Footer]

Powered monitors need line level input.
I could use a Y connection to pull line level from the input on the main amp, halving the signal level available to the main amp.
We could compensate for that.

It does not really work that way with a line level source. Yes, the signal does degrade every time its split but if the connections are high quality it degrades so little its neglegable. Odds are the amp you have has a line or mic level pass through that you could use.

Outside of many 70v speakers, your not going to find a speaker with a volume control. Pick up a cheap behringer monitor or something like that. Also, your sound op really should not be listening to the mix that he/she is doing through a monitor. They should be hearing what the audience is hearing. Remove glass, move the console, do whatever you can do to make that happen.
Amazon.com: Behringer MS16 Powered Studio Desktop Monitors: Electronics

 

[FMEng]

Powered monitors need line level input.
I could use a Y connection to pull line level from the input on the main amp, halving the signal level available to the main amp.
We could compensate for that.

Apart from giving me lots of choices of active monitors, what advantage does that approach offer as compared to a passive monitor tapped into a parallel speaker output?

A Y connection on the amp input will not significantly affect the level to the main amp. Most line input are high impedance and most line outputs are low impedance, so driving multiple inputs does not load down the level.

The big advantage of using an active monitor is that it gives you ready-made speaker that has a volume control. It also will not affect the performance of the main system, as adding another speaker to an amplifier output could.

I just bought a pair of M-Audio AV-40 speakers. They are pretty decent for the money, and have a volume control on the front. I wouldn't use them for mixing, but they would be fine for a lighting booth.

M-Audio AV40 Compact Active Monitors-Pair | BSWUSA.com

 

[2mojo2]

It does not really work that way with a line level source. Yes, the signal does degrade every time its split but if the connections are high quality it degrades so little its neglegable. Odds are the amp you have has a line or mic level pass through that you could use.

Outside of many 70v speakers, your not going to find a speaker with a volume control. Pick up a cheap behringer monitor or something like that. Also, your sound op really should not be listening to the mix that he/she is doing through a monitor. They should be hearing what the audience is hearing. Remove glass, move the console, do whatever you can do to make that happen.
Amazon.com: Behringer MS16 Powered Studio Desktop Monitors: Electronics

Footer, I appreciate you taking the time to write, but I'm not sure you read the original post carefully.
1. The amp does not have a feed through
2. It is the lighting techs who are in the booth, not the sound operator. We moved the sound console to the house years ago.
3. There are many thousands of stage monitors around with volume control. Look at any old Peavey 112M. I just don't see any new ones. Somehow this handy feature went out of fashion.

 

[Footer]

Footer, I appreciate you taking the time to write, but I'm not sure you read the original post carefully.
1. The amp does not have a feed through

Then buy one of these:

Yes, volume controls used to be pretty common on gear way back when. However, back then amps were expensive and heavy. Mixers did not have as many outputs. Therefore, you needed the pots on the speakers to balance the mix. Now, we have cheap amps, driveracks, XTAs, etc to fix that problem. Added to that, many monitor systems are now active. I can not remember the last show that came in with an amp rack for onstage wedges. Pick up a cheap active monitor and split off your mains feed. It should do what you want without giving you issues down the line.

 

[waynehoskins]

If there are spare audio tie lines between the mix position and the lighting booth, you could come out of a matrix, mono out, or just about anything on the console to feed an Anchor (which everybody so has to have several of; they're great).

Alternatively, you could come out a spare output on the system processor and configure it for that (with appropriate delay, limiting, etc.).

Another option, not so great but workable, is a room mic fed into a mic pre and then into the Anchor.

Or you could wye out of the main mix drive line(s) like mentioned earlier.

Is there a 70V lobby speaker system? You could even come off of that, either at drive level into an Anchor or high-level into a 70V speaker.

So many options better than plugging another loudspeaker into that main amplifier.

 

[2mojo2]

If there are spare audio tie lines between the mix position and the lighting booth, you could come out of a matrix, mono out, or just about anything on the console to feed an Anchor (which everybody so has to have several of; they're great).
No spares in place, but it is a creative approach.
Alternatively, you could come out a spare output on the system processor and configure it for that (with appropriate delay, limiting, etc.).

Another option, not so great but workable, is a room mic fed into a mic pre and then into the Anchor.
Funny you should bring that up. On my long list of projects for this theater is a microphone in the house feeding a 70V distributed line to the scenery shop and to locations where the actors wait for their scenes. I think it would help the stage hands stay engaged in the performance and it would allow the actors to hear the audience reaction even when they a well off stage.

Or you could wye out of the main mix drive line(s) like mentioned earlier.
This seems by far the simplest solution.

Is there a 70V lobby speaker system? You could even come off of that, either at drive level into an Anchor or high-level into a 70V speaker.
The standard voltage for distributed lines in our buildings is, I beleive, 24. I don't know why they did not choose 70V, considering the distances encountered in a large high school.

So many options better than plugging another loudspeaker into that main amplifier.

I may be on thin ice here, but I would expect a monitor cranked down to consume a few Watts to have a negligible effect on the main.

 

[FMEng]

I may be on thin ice here, but I would expect a monitor cranked down to consume a few Watts to have a negligible effect on the main.

It all depends on the impedance. Most of the ways to control the level of a passive speaker keep the impedance constant, therefore the volume control has to be capable of withstanding the full power of the amp, and it loads the amplifer.