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OK, im extremely happy

Discussion in 'Sound, Music, and Intercom' started by soundop, Apr 27, 2008.

  1. soundop

    soundop Active Member

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    i just found out the top pirority in our schools building list is a new sound system, to be installed this summer, our sound guy is also the media services guy, meaning i get to be the first student to learn our new board and the whole system, no techs have any say in the system, but to be the first tech at our school who gets to learn it seems like a honor
     
  2. gafftaper

    gafftaper Senior Team Senior Team Fight Leukemia

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    Congratulations and Condolences. New equipment can be both awesome and a pain. Good Luck and enjoy.
     
  3. mbenonis

    mbenonis Wireless Guy Administrator

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    So why aren't you getting any say? You should sit down with the powers that be and make sure they don't spec out anything stupid...
     
  4. museav

    museav CBMod CB Mods Departed Member

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    While getting user input is usually very important, there can be many other considerations when it is for a school project, especially for public schools. I've run into cases of getting user input being handled poorly and resulting in extreme disappointment for the users. Just because the techs think something is needed, desired or important and thus asked for it does not mean it will be provided, there are many potentially overriding factors, especially budget and, too often, politics. I've seen too many times that people view the opportunity to present their input as being an indication that they will get everything they ask for and they are then bitterly disappointed, and sometimes take it personally, when they don't.

    I have had high schools where we had to reduce the system capabilities from what was initially planned because it was decided that the systems were too much improved over other schools and all schools in the district had to all have basically the same systems, they didn't want taxpayers or parents complaining that the one school got something much better or worse than the others. In one case I had to modify a speaker system design just because it didn't house the speakers in enclosures like the other schools did, it wasn't an aesthetic consideration, it was simply the school board saying that's how it was done in the other schools. I've even been involved in school projects where the tech systems 'design' was simply adapting standard system designs provided by the school district, or the system design from the last school, to that facility.

    So getting user input for school and university projects can be an interesting situation and has to be handled carefully.

    What I think is important is finding out what you are getting and what training, documentation, etc. will be provided. Again, it may differ, I've had some schools that want their primary operators involved in any system training while others wanted only the instructors and/or facilities staff trained and they would then control what was presented to the techs.
     
  5. soundop

    soundop Active Member

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    ugh, ya, i just have to get thourgh this show without snapping on either of the current ops (ones a junior, still a newb, and the others the senior "i know it all, i dont need your help fixing my board") ugh sunday theres going to be a huge vent in the punching bag
     
  6. soundop

    soundop Active Member

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    ok good news were perobably getting a yamaha m7cl, though some guys think that we can push for a vi4 by asking for a vi6, those are way to complex for highsschool students
     
  7. soundlight

    soundlight Well-Known Member

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    The M7CL is really the perfect digital desk for high schools that can afford it. You can hit the select button and everything is there. It's not paged if you stick to the inputs on the back of the board. You can easily put sends-on-fader with a double-tap. You can easily put a graphic EQ on mains out, you can easily put effects on a channel, you can easily do alot of routine operations by just flipping through the manual and finding them.

    I'd choose an M7CL over a Vi4 for a high school any day. The money that would go for the Vi4, if it indeed costs more, can be better spent elsewhere, like on a digital snake (Whirlwind E-Snake is nice, and the cobranet interfaces right into the console).
     
  8. avkid

    avkid Not a New User Fight Leukemia

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  9. hsaunier

    hsaunier Active Member

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    Another advantage to the M7cl, in a public school application, is creating a user "key" in the form of a usb jump drive. Any parameters that should not be adjusted by novice users can be locked out. Students can also download Yamaha's studio manager software and then load in the M7cl virtual console and explore the layers of menus at home. Advanced techs can even take home a play script, develope show cues and then bring them back and load them.
     
  10. museav

    museav CBMod CB Mods Departed Member

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    The M7CL would typically be a good option, but before getting caught up in the equipment, step back and look at the system overall. You can always upgrade or replace the console in a few years but you'll probably be stuck with the cabling, connectivity and perhaps even the speaker system for years to come. What you probably don't want to do is push for the cool console and have it adversely affect other areas that will be very difficult to address in the future. So first make sure you have the connectivity you need where you need it, with some extra for growth and unknowns, and the basic functionality you want is supported. Then look at the speaker system and if it meets the needs.

    Once you've gotten the connectivity and speaker systems where you need them, then that will define some of the capabilities required of the console. With that information you can really start looking at what console works for the application. Put simply, design the system and select the console that fits rather than selecting a console and designing the system, or what you can do, around it. It is very easy and understandable to get caught up in the excitement of new gear but after the "new" wears off it is really about how it helps you do your job and not what it is.

    I have had people point out that in some theatrical applications one potential limitation of the Yamaha M7CL is the number of inputs that can be controlled. You can add cards for a larger quantity of physical input and output ports but as far as control channels you are fixed at 32 mono and 4 stereo input channels on the M7CL-32 and 48 mono and 4 stereo input channels on the M7CL-48. In comparison, an LS9-32 can support the same mix buses as the M7CL but up to 64 mono input channels. This is the type of situation where knowing the actual I/O involved may be a factor in the console selection.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2008
  11. hsaunier

    hsaunier Active Member

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    You are correct Brad. I like gadgets, and sometimes forget to step back and take in all the scenery for looking at the leaves on the trees.
     
  12. museav

    museav CBMod CB Mods Departed Member

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    Hugh, my comments weren't directed to you, you made some great points. My comments were to the situation in general, it is too common to see someone discussing a new facility or new tech system immediately jump to focusing on the individual products involved and overlooking the 'big picture'.

    This is a sensitive subject to me as I just went through this on a project. It's a new county performing arts center and we offered the TD and anyone with whom he wanted to share the information our preliminary ideas for the systems. At this point we are early in the design and are dealing with everything on a more conceptual basis, in fact the actual systems procurement will be a separate process from the base building construction. So I was hoping to get responses regarding the quantities and locations of mic inputs, tie lines, monitors sends, comms, etc. and on the overall functionality and concept of the systems, the things that could affect the conduit, power and other base building aspects regardless of the products used. Instead I received almost exclusively comments on specific manufacturers and models they wanted. So now I may have to base much of the system design around the specific products identified rather than the concepts proposed.
     
  13. hsaunier

    hsaunier Active Member

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    No offense taken. We are a year into operating our new construction facility. We are attached to a high school / middle school. We are however a community PAC. We new well in advance that national one off acts would be coming in here. We also new that the school would be doing an annual musical. So, system design began with an acoustition. He made a monumental design enhancement. Our balcony does not attach to the building except at walkways. We have a wide open 2 1/2' opening all the way around. This allows low frequencies under the balcony an escape route and the people sitting in the mezzonine don't get smashed with low end. Next to cover all seating with audio we flew LCR, JBL VRX series tops, 4 boxes / stack and center flew duel 18 subs. For inputs we placed 10 inputs SL, 10 inputs SR, 10 wireless inputs at the mix position and 16 inputs in the orchestra pit. All wall plates have XLR's and a Whirlwind mass connector with a 30' jump snake for each set of ins. All of the inputs have been split and return to the SL panel to a 48ch mass. We have a 48ch fantail to hook to a monitor console if needed. We put a PM5D at FOH and with that configuration we have been able to cover nearly all riders that come through. Again,, we knew in advance the intended use of the stage and designed it that way. Our students are lucky and get to use pro gear as a result.
     
  14. herr_highbrau

    herr_highbrau Member

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    I'm glad things are going well. At any rate, you don't want the Vi4 or 6. I've used them, and hated it. Go with Phil's suggestion and drool over the iLive (made not far from my girlfriend's place in England incidentally :p).

    Thing to remember is that it is a school, and you can't really go overboard. You may know the M7 like the back of your hand, but what about the next generation? Most important things in my book are lots of power, rigging points/access and ins/outs (more or less in that order).

    I know the elation feeling about installs though. Although I am sad and tend to get worked up over the infrastructure ("Wow! There's 25 high capacity rigging points and 10 multi points in the randomest of places!" ;)).
     
  15. soundop

    soundop Active Member

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    okm one more thing to add to this theard, i just got signed on to do a gig for 300 dollars, its a saturday and a sunday, but he ill do it
     

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