orientation of FEL bulbs

Hey everone, I have a question that has been bugging me for a month or two now. Inside the bulb of a OSRAM 575w bulb there is a small wire that ends in a hook that is attached to the filament. When you relamp a fixture with this type of bulb, does the hook have to be on top, "holding" the filament up, or does it not matter. Older FEL from GE have the hook in a different orientation. We use these bulbs in our colourtran 20deg. We have made multiple guesses, but cannot find anything concrete, hope someone can help!
Thanks, FF
 
They are designed for any orientation.
 
Wow, thats thinking a lot into it...

Doesn't matter

Just be sure to change out the lamp fluid every 3,000 hrs and you will be fine.
 
Lamps that require a special orientation will say it on the packing. For example "burn base down to horizontal" Meaning the base can point anywhere from 3:00 to 9:00.
 
fastfreddy, I don't know to which "OSRAM 575w bulb" you are referring, but in the case of an FEL lamp, with a "center filament support," such as this:
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Lamp,Fel-Q1000/4cl - Projection Lamps - Lamps - Lighting : Grainger Industrial Supply

It would seem prudent to me to try to insure that the filament hangs from the support. Granted I'm sure we all agree that few fixtures (shins, heads, Balcony Rail units perhaps) are going to be oriented in such a way that the lamp is horizontal, but why taunt gravity? (Of course, this only applies to fixtures that have sockets with pins mounted vertically. The Strand 2230 family has the socket mounted horizontally, for example.)
A counterpoint can be made that if a filament sags so much as to contact a support arm in an unintended place, the lamp should be discarded as it will be impossible to bench focus to provide an even field.

Modern "HPL-style" lamps, including the GLA family, have multiple filament segments that are well supported in any orientation.
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/members/fastfreddy.html
 
That is indeed the lamp I am asking about, sorry I didnt make it clear it was a FEL. The OSRAM one has the arm 90deg to the GE one, so if you want the arm to hold up the filament you would need to turn the back lamp socket depending on the bulb. I never thought the orientation mattered, but a coworker of mine seemes convinced that the arm needs to be on top. I was just hoping some bulb wizard would have the difinative answer, but we shall reley upon our common sense, and then just do what the boss says! Hopefully next year we can get some more source4s and make the bulbs a moot point.
Thank you all for the input, FF
 
That is indeed the lamp I am asking about, sorry I didnt make it clear it was a FEL. The OSRAM one has the arm 90deg to the GE one, so if you want the arm to hold up the filament you would need to turn the back lamp socket depending on the bulb. I never thought the orientation mattered, but a coworker of mine seemes convinced that the arm needs to be on top. I was just hoping some bulb wizard would have the difinative answer, but we shall reley upon our common sense, and then just do what the boss says! Hopefully next year we can get some more source4s and make the bulbs a moot point.
Thank you all for the input, FF

We have the lamp wizard, we'll see if he touches this one.
 
A bit off topic, but I have always been into rotating lamps. For example, every (fill in the blank) hours (or whenever I would think of it) I would switch the position of horizontal lamps to try to reduce filament sag. (Most often with par bulbs, giving them a 180 degree rotation.) Can't say I ever was able to track if it made a difference. Just made sense to me.
 
Thought everyone was doing a great job on the subject thus I didn't want to step in, plus attempting to spend less time on-line given there are a lot of very good lamp people now on this forum. All FEL lamps at least for the like last ten to 15 years have been of any burn position so sag should not be any problem no matter how the lamp is mounted. Up or down that filament support wire is there to prevent sag and slipping off. Initial thought would be that where the filament support wire is located on the 575w lamp is at a cooler spot on the filament grid and it is less likely to stretch and sag there unless bumped thus the hook of the support is sufficient. (This without looking at one) On the FEL lamp, it's located at the hot spot but wraps around the filament sufficiently to prevent slippage at any position.

On the other hand rotating them isn't a bad idea, perhapsfor any lamp. Perhaps DR. Bulb from Ushio or another engineer could answer the question, "Given the universal support of burn position to the filament is concern about sag during the life of the lamp valid?" At very least, during this 180 degree swap of the lamp, it's base and bi-post should be examined to see if the base is going bad. So if nothing else you have examined the lamp socket which is always a good part of preventative maintenance. I Always hate those sockets that weld themself to the lampholder due to just leaving them alone. Beyond the spring steel lamp poppers I make for HPL lamps, I found recently that my mini pry-bar (about 4") works well in popping welded lamps.

On the other hand, why is anyone still using FEL lamps?

The filament support wire is hooked to support the filament for any position so it shouldn't matter what position the lamp is at. I donated all of that type of lamp to my local theater, once I sold off all my more modern Lekos. I'll have a look at the concept in the morning at work and perhaps it's theoretically possible that a modern 575w lamp's filament might slip off the hanger. I'll throw the question to one or two manufacturer's engineers to answer. I'm sure they would love such a question as opposed to my more normal, "Why are these moving light lamps failing so soon questions".

At times filaments from CYX to FEL do slip off a filament support. Its common for the filament to burn right thru the outer globe and even keep working while mostly encased in glass - kind of cool for wall of shame type lamps. But on the other hand it is rare for a filament to slip off its hanger no matter what burn position, unless given a good bump while in use. On some lamps the filament support grid (often made of glass on higher wattage filament)breaks and allows the filament and hangers to go flopping. This is often from shock say in a road case bounced onto a truck dock plate or as I read on a moving light lamp tag today "Truss fell" as reason why the lamp broke. That was a first for me in "reason for lamp replacement" and the only lamp that broke so I expect it must have just been some form of pre-rig truss cart that's top heavy that fell over.

At least filament lamps don't have the filament support wire sag or bending problems that many moving light lamps have. They can burn through with heat due to proximity to the lamp capsule. If bounced while being moved, that filament lower or higher lead in wire/support wire, can bend ( if not carbonizing or melting) and allowing the inner HID capsule to either get too close to the upper support wire or in the case of a lower capsule bending allowing it to get too close to the above or outer globe of the lamp. Also the support wires can scratch the outer globe of a HR lamps and cause cracking.

Moving light lamps.... again I'm sure the lamp manufacturers would much rather discuss a filament lamp question with me over moving light lamp problems which I mostly deal with these days. I wouldn't even have to involve a fixture manufacturer or two- in which I have found that the cooling of the lamp is just plain insufficient for the operating temperature of the lamp, causing lamp and base failure (very expensive in replacing all these lamps and bases plus heat fuses and fans, wiring etc). More than one brand of "high tech" fixture that beyond having heat causing problems, is also using a lamp that doesn't support the inner capsule well enough... but is the only lamp on the market with a high enough fill pressure within the lamp to work. Lots of modern moving light fixture problems out there with lamps not living up to their expected lamp life.
 
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