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Control/Dimming Patching problem with my school's Leviton Innovator board.

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by itie, Jan 20, 2009.

  1. itie

    itie Active Member

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    hello,
    my school has no t.d and im the only person who knows anything about tech theatre and i dont know that much. well anyway we have a leviton innovator board on a 1 to 1 patch. a guy came in and flipped channels 7 and 14. i dont know why but he did. of course two years ago when i found out i thought the first way to fix it was by doing a 1 to 1 patch all ports. (that was before i know what patching was). it fix my problem but gave me a new one. we have two studio spots movers. when i did this it patched them into all the channels. now when i go to use my movers random lights come one with it. im sure there is something easy to do to fix it, so if you could let me know i will be forever great full. :)
     
  2. TheDonkey

    TheDonkey Active Member

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    Your channels are probably messed up, make sure that the mover DMX channel is set to a number higher than your dimmers, so if you have 24 dimmers, set your mover to start at 25, then soft-patch as needed.
     
  3. Bean

    Bean Member

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    Can you clarify, when you use movers, through the device panel, other lights come on and the movers work as normal? Is this correct?

    Also, are you using 1 or 2 universes? look at how many DMX cables are plugged into the back of the desk if you're unsure. (5pin connectors)

    Also, go into the setup menu, device tab and tell me what Port the Movers are on.
     
  4. waynehoskins

    waynehoskins Active Member

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    A read through the manual in the section on Patching would be good. There's also a wonderful thread on here, active even in the last few days, on patching. That'd be well worth a read -- there are some really good (and varied) opinions on why to patch and how lots of guys patch.

    Having, thankfully, selective amnesia about the one time I drove a C'tran Innovator, here is what comes to mind. There are more DMX addresses (especially with two universes, 1024) than console handles (real or virtual) on most boards. So often pressing the "Default 1=1 Patch" key will make the numbers wrap around. Channel 1 gets address 1, up to, say, 96 with address 96. Address 97 then goes on 1, 98 on 2, and before you know it, your Spot 250s (regardless of what universe they're on) are controlled by handles that also have other things on them.

    What you need to do is manually alter the patch so it makes sense. This means you'll need to decide what kind of patch you want, where you want your movers to wind up (eating up four billion channels in the process), and so on.
     
  5. Bean

    Bean Member

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    The Innovator 1-1 patch patches channel 1 to dimmer 1 etc to 512, for all 3 universes, however movers are specific to their universe and do not get patched in the patch section, but in the device section of the setup menu.

    This is what confuses me, you cannot change the output channels/universes of movers from the patch menu, you can only patch channels (faders) to addresses used by movers.

    So the above situation is impossible, unless I've missed something.
     
  6. MNBallet

    MNBallet Active Member

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    what you need to do is re-do the patch. When you defult 1 to 1 on all 3 ports, it puts DMX 1 of port A, dmx 1 of port B, and dmx 1 of port C all into channel 1. Go back and clear your patch. Then do a 1 to 1 defult but this time choose your port as port A (the one your dimmers are on?)
    To edit what channels your movers are you you have to go to the set up page, and then choose S6 "device" this is your patch for movers.

    hope this helps.
    Ken Pogin
    Tour Manager
    Minnesota Ballet
     
  7. lieperjp

    lieperjp Well-Known Member

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    Something you will want to do is go find a pack of floppy diskettes, or find the disk that came with your board. Once you get your patching figured out, save everything to the disk (save it to two different disks and keep them secure!). That way, if something like this happens again, you can simply re-load the disk.
     
  8. waynehoskins

    waynehoskins Active Member

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    Ah, yes, much easier. You do have a transfer disk from before the patch was changed, don't you?

    .. as to how the Innovator handles patching the multiple universes, again, I drove an Innovator once, more than five years ago, for one show, and it wasn't particularly fun or exciting. The behavior of the addresses wrapping around is a common behavior on mayn boards I've seen. It sounds like the C'tran may be different. Again, that's where RTFM would be a good plan.
     
  9. Sayen

    Sayen Active Member

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    First, kick the board, make sure it knows who's boss. Slap it around a little if necessary, and insult it's family. Remember too that it is perfectly acceptable to swear at an Innovator.

    If I'm understanding you, I did the same thing when I first got the board. A typical setup is probably dimmers on Port A, and movers on Port B or Port C? You can see this on the device menu: Setup -> Devices (Softkey 6?).

    In the patch screen, select a 1 to 1 patch - Softkey 6 I think.

    Are your moving devices on another universe - B or C?

    In the patch screen you can clear out the B and C entries from dimmer control. I think it's softkey 7, but it will say "Clear."

    Don't clear everything - choose the selective option, and remove universe B or C. When you do a 1 to 1 it removes the channels you cleared.

    Once you clear them from the patch screen, the dimmer values will no longer control moving devices, and selecting a device will control it correctly.

    For example, I run my dimmers off Port A. Movers are split between B and C, since I have to run physical cable through my house. The only thing that shows on my patch screen are the channels for Port A.

    If that doesn't help, respond with some specifics about your setup. I fight with my Innovator daily.
     
  10. itie

    itie Active Member

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    thank you everyone for the great advise i will try it and see how it goes. :). my board is set up with the dimmers on port A and i dont believe there is anything on port B and port C has my movers. i did a 1 to 1 patch on the each channel which got the movers off port A and B. so now i will try clearing port C and starting from nothing. my school is only 3 years old and noboby ever knew how to save a show expect me and i never had to, until about two months ago when i tried and found out our floppy drive in the board is broken. then i found out the boards warranty was up. so the floppy idea wont work. I was looking for a new floppy drive for it but couldnt find one. do you guys know of where i could get one? thanks again for the help.
     
  11. Sayen

    Sayen Active Member

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    Is the drive broken, or just slow? 10-15 minutes to save a file is not uncommon with the Innovator.
     
  12. waynehoskins

    waynehoskins Active Member

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    Wow, and Innovator is no older than Express, right? (do I remember right that it's circa 2003?)

    Not a good thing for C'tran. Though why the hell anybody would spec or buy a (current model) C'tran board today is beyond me.
     
  13. Esoteric

    Esoteric Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately sometimes it is either that or a software solution and some people are dead set against software solutions.

    Mike
     
  14. Sayen

    Sayen Active Member

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    What I've found from my situation and from speaking with others is that Leviton markets to schools, and people without knowing better buy the Innovator based on a long list of snazzy sounding features. I caught part of the sales rep's speech where he described this as a top of the line modern console. I suspect we paid top price for it too, which means for a touch more would could have purchased an Ion.

    Other great modern features? No USB support, no mouse input, and the keyboard input isn't a standard PS2, it's one size larger (name escapes me). Drive doesn't overwrite files either, so I have to keep deleting ghost backups of shows. Thankfully, my desktop is old enough to still have a floppy drive.
     
  15. MNBallet

    MNBallet Active Member

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    I have a 24/48 Innovator that I've toured with for 10 years now. I love my board, it's been very reliable. I love the trackball with a mirror attachment on a Souce Four and use it live as a followspot.
     
  16. Esoteric

    Esoteric Well-Known Member

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    I hate Leviton (especially after this stupid refresh rate crap with the Strand 300). That being said, a top of the line Leviton console can be had for less than half of an Ion.

    I wouldn't be surprised if Leviton moves to solidify their place in this market now that ETC has (temporarily) vacated it.

    By the way it is called an ATX keyboard.

    Mike
     
  17. itie

    itie Active Member

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    well im glad im not the only one who has these feeling for the board i run. but my floppy drive is broken for sure. i put the floppy in and it takes it no problem. i click all the buttons needed to save and nothing happens. then i tried ejecting it and the floppy pop up but not out. :evil:. so im pretty sure its a bad drive which makes me so mad cause leviton gave it that way. i mean the board is only three years old and nobody has ever tried to use the floppy drive before me.
     
  18. lieperjp

    lieperjp Well-Known Member

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    I may dislike my Innovator because of some scuffles I've had with it in the past (a spell of constant freeze-ups in the middle of my first show ever!), but I will say it's not a half bad board. I'm thankful for what I have, and as I don't have [-]a whole lot of[/-] any toys to play around with, I don't seem to run into [-]any[/-] very few problems. My biggest problem just lies in that I am really the only one who knows its advanced functions here, so that means if someone screws something up I have to fix it. If Leviton could increase its reliability, add USB support, regular mouse and keyboard options it would be a very decent board for its cost.
     

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