QOTD: Leaving a phase out

It is a list of the CEC code changes that were made active in 2012, part of which is a change in rated capacity of conductors Changing Tables 1-4.

I think my earlier statement stands however. If you need to ask this or be told this stuff (ie how to select a conductor size) you are not qualified to hook-up cams to the disconnect. Not sure about the US, but the poster who asked is in Quebec and you are supposed to be licensed to do such connections here (not that it is always followed).

I think ST cleared up the ratings. Free air rating in much higher, and is typically what we use in theater/entertainment. Ratings for overhead lines are even higher. I have a 600A service coming from the transformer on 1/0 aluminum, but it splits into (3) 2/0 cables before entering the conduit on the building. I'm not vouching for these specs, its just what the power company put in, but you can see that the more space and heat dissipated, allows for a significantly higher rating. This is conversely the same reason we de-rate socapex cables by 50% compared to individual conductors. All of that aside, I have never had an issue using 4/0 for a 400a service or 2/0 for a 200a in Canada, though you should check with the local AHJ. Really most of the difficulty is from boarder patrol holding tour buses at the boarder just to screw with them.:confused:

Even those who are qualified may not remember the exact ratings of a particular cable. That is why I posted the commonly used sizes for a given power service. Off the top of my head I might not remember what the maximum rating is for #2, however I know it is more than 100, and less than 200 amps. So when I find a ball room with 100A disconnects, I know to use #2, just as I would choose 2/0 for a 200 amp. These same rules of thumb are used all over the industry. 3/8" steel for 1-ton points, 1/2" for 2-ton. I know this to be true in most common uses, but I cannot tell you the exact rating of the steel unless I look it up. When you start to go outside of typical application then it is prudent to do exact math, but for most things, just using accepted standards will do the trick, otherwise you would have to have an impressive reservoir of numbers and equations in your head.
 
Just to be clear, the ampacities listed in Table 2 of the link refer to cables or conduits with not more than three current carrying conductors. For single conductor portable feeder cables, both the CEC and the NEC use the free-air ratings, which are much higher than Table 2.

While we're at it, how about some Canadian CB'ers getting on the case to propose updates to Section 44 of the CEC covering theatres? It is woefully out of date--it looks like the NEC did in 1980!

ST

Yes indeed, There are separate tables for Free-Air and Not (Tables 1-4, 2 for copper 2 for Al), not to mention various tables for specific cable types (including K, etc), and de-rating tables for when conductors or cables are grouped together, in a warm environment, etc. There is actually a fair amount of code to sift though regarding conductor sizing.

I agree that Section 44 needs an update, and so does THE OTHER relevant section which I cannot remember the number for off hand right now (52? 48?). The wording actually needs some updating to differentiate between the two as well. I've asked 2 inspectors about some of it, and both had no clue and differed to me.

I am not ambitious enough to enact some of said changes (or experienced enough Id say) however I wouldn't be opposed in lending a helpful hand as it were.

My main point was to point out that code HAD changed for allowable ampacities in the CEC and it may not match code requirements in other regions.
 
I agree that Section 44 needs an update, and so does THE OTHER relevant section which I cannot remember the number for off hand right now (52? 48?). The wording actually needs some updating to differentiate between the two as well. I've asked 2 inspectors about some of it, and both had no clue and differed to me.

Section 66 is also looking a bit out of date to me:

Section 66 — Amusement parks, midways, carnivals, film and TV sets, TV remote broadcasting locations, and travelling shows

ST
 
Section 66 is also looking a bit out of date to me:

Section 66 — Amusement parks, midways, carnivals, film and TV sets, TV remote broadcasting locations, and travelling shows

ST

That would be the one. Been a while since I've actually read it. Totally needs an update. Id love to see this!

I think the worst part is that many electricians aren't even really AWARE of Section 44 & 66, and I've seen quite a number of violations based on these sections. My code teacher was totally unfamiliar with these sections (I remember referencing them in classroom discussion), and a number of inspectors are also quite un-versed in these sections (except for the few who directly generally deal with them by way of "special inspections"). So perhaps the ESA needs to get their act together a little bit on this?
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back