Recomendations For Cabled IEMs?

aldenf

Member
Hey guys!

Just came off a rock musical with band on stage in the middle of the set; platforms upstage and stairs around. I struggled with monitor feedback the entire run; actors in omni ear rigs, constantly around the monitors. It didn't help that we only had 2 days to tech the entire show, with only the MD...

Anyhow, FOH was pretty darn good. Because of the short tech process here, I thought an inexpensive/moderate cabled IEM system would solve the problem altogether, allowing me to concentrate on FOH.

I could use inexpensive headphone amps like Rolls PM50s Personal Monitor Amplifers (<$50/ea) and inexpensive in-ear buds like the Sennhesier CX 200 (<$25/ea). Besides no limiting options, anyone see any drawbacks going this way?

I think RF IEMs are unnecessary since all the musicians are completely stationary with butts parked in chairs. Besides, the fewer RF devices I have to manage, the better. =)

Any other thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

~Alden
 
The one catch to the Rolls is an un-balanced input for the monitor mix. It could still work with some effort. I'd put a distro amp in the band for the mix to keep the un-balanced runs reasonably short.
 
Good catch, FMEng. Thanks! A distro amp is a great idea. Thinking that I'll need 3 discreet mixes to the pit, I'd need a somewhat pricey distro. I'd also like to keep setup as easy as dropping wedges. I only have intern help... I'd really love to find a balanced unit. Mono is prefered. I hate to use the "B" word. But Behringer makes the MA400 for $20/ea. It takes an unbalanced stereo or balanced mono signal. <--Never mind. After reading the manual, the MA400 doesn't accept a balanced input---> The only other choice I can find is the Whirlwind HBUC (approx. $100/ea) that takes a balanced mono signal...

Any other thoughts? Is anyone using IEMs in their pit?
 
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I also use the shure p4hw in mono, I really like using IEM's now, not having the extra noise and extra stuff(monitors) eating up pit space...

In my space only certain people get IEMs, conductors, keyboard players(no amps also), drummers...

and as you said, I would stick to wired, wireless is nice, but comes with its own extra costs and headaches.

Sean...
 
Thanks guys! The P4HW would be rentable items for me. Don't think I can convince management to purchase these right now. And 9v batteries... Really?
Is it out of line to request musicians to provide their own ear buds?
 
Is it out of line to request musicians to provide their own ear buds?
no, I ask all my folks to bring there own...and batteries, well, what can you do, teach them to turn them off when the show is over....or they can provide their own :angryoldman:

Sean...
 
Is it out of line to request musicians to provide their own ear buds?

Yes, you cut the monitors you provide the in ears, at least the first pair. I'd recommend Shure SE215's.

no, I ask all my folks to bring there own...and batteries, well, what can you do, teach them to turn them off when the show is over....or they can provide their own :angryoldman:

Sean...

Well that's pretty rude. If you spec the gear, you provide the batteries to power it. I don't tell all the actors to get in wireless mic and then expect them to supply their own batteries. Buying perishables like batteries or IEM's are costs that you incur and if you can't afford the cost of doing business then don't do it.
 
I'd agree with @themuzicman. Your show, your equipment, your consumables.

Personally, I'd argue that anything under $25 isn't really an IEM. Through the lack of sound isolation and sound quality I'd expect from something that inexpensive, I'd be concerned that your musicians would be hearing something very different than the sounds their instruments and vocals are actually producing. If all they need to hear and be able to discern is the best of the kick drum, everyday headphones will get you by. If you need to be able to assess the tonal quality of their instrument/vocals or other sources, something at that price isn't going to cut it.

Worse yet, a mix-and-match approach to IEM's is asking for super bad juju. If you have several musicians off of the same headphone amp using their own everyday headphones (which almost certainly will have no sound isolation), now you've got several musicians who are hearing several different mixes. What one person hears in their Skullcandy over-ear headphones is going to be drastically different from the musician who's listening through their Apple earbuds that came with their iPod. Not to mention, the guy with the over-ear headphones is hearing mostly himself and the mix being sent to him, while the person with earbuds is listening to the mix in their ears and every other sound in their geographical vicinity --- but they're both getting the same mix from the headphone amp, so you have to fight with an EQ on that mix that makes both musicians content, an impossible task.

Isolation is key for IEM's. Like with cheap ear buds, if you have no isolation, you have to crank your mix up above the level of noise around you if you want to hear your mix more prominently than the brass section to your left and right or the drum kit directly behind you. Without isolation, the level you have to crank the headphones up to then is deafening. Literally, deafening -- nothing anyone should be forced to listen to for any sustained amount of time, especially on a routine basis. It will ruin their hearing. Not to mention that for many headphones, the audio quality will distort at these levels.

Now if your musicians happen to have everyday headphones that are up to the task, then by all means, invite them to use their own. My everyday headphones happen to be Shure SE315's. A coworker of mine has Shure SE545's as his. A friend of mine has Shure SE215's. All of these are intended for use as IEM's and offer >30dB of attenuation for sound isolation with audio quality requiring little to no EQ necessary for achieving a mix representative of the sources being fed into it. I like to wear my SE315's when I'm working in the scene shop because they provide me hearing protection from all of the saws while also letting me listening to my music at a comfortable level. They're also designed to be worn for an extended amount of time with inserts of various sizes and materials for the bud material, allowing you to choose the right fit and material for you. That means you can wear these for hours on end without feeling compelled to rip them out of your ears at every available moment because of how uncomfortable they are. My coworker -- he loves his SE545's for when he's on his motorcycle. Again -- they give him ample hearing protection from his bike and from passing traffic, while also letting him listen to music or podcasts or audiobooks at a comfortable, non-deafening level.

But most musicians aren't going to just happen to have IEM-quality headphones. A lot of people have never spent more than $20 on a pair of headphones. That said -- the people who have listened to $250 headphones will almost certainly never turn back. It's a world of difference in sound quality and isolation. Listening to my Apple earbuds or my Skullcandy over-ear headphones makes me feel like my ears are bleeding -- the quality is just so vastly different, not to mention I can't wear either for very long before extreme discomfort sets in.

If you're going to ask musicians to supply their own, or even if you go out and buy a consistent spread of the same type of headphones, really understand the bag of angry cats your potentially opening up. If nothing else, at least buy one pair first, give them a try yourself for 2 hours at a time, clean them off, and then let a couple of your musicians try them out too and give you a yay/nay before you go buying a full inventory of them. After all, your musicians are the ones that will suffer for hours at a time if what you end up buying doesn't suit the application. Not to mention the risk you run of having to then replace them if your musicians can't stand them.
 
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Well that's pretty rude. If you spec the gear, you provide the batteries to power it
Meaning, if they cant remember to turn off the packs that I ask them to turn off, its an empty threat, but they turn them off, all I ask....

And as for ear buds, if you are doing 5 shows a week for nine months, of course I would buy them, I use IEM's maybe three to four weeks out of the year and almost never the same person wearing them. It has not been a problem for us yet, and if anyone who uses IEM's on a regular bases comes in they have there own...

What I have done has been successful for my situation. (I borrow IEM's from a friend as I dont have the funds to purchase them, and I do it because I can)

Sean...
 
And as for ear buds, if you are doing 5 shows a week for nine months, of course I would buy them, I use IEM's maybe three to four weeks out of the year and almost never the same person wearing them. It has not been a problem for us yet, and if anyone who uses IEM's on a regular bases comes in they have there own...

If you're having different people wear the same IEM's, it is also courtesy to provide new tips for every person to be hygienic. Shure sells individual packages of the comply tips in large boxes.
 
Ok,
I see how the way I wrote that initial comment could have been taken that I require people to bring 9volts(I dont) as well as there own ear buds. I do provide the batteries needed but require that they do their part to turn off packs when done to help save cost. I know its only 98 cents, but more the principle. Like turning the lights off when you leave the room.

I have not had one person complain about using their own buds, are they perfect noise cancelling, multi driver? Not by any stretch, but its what we have and they are happy, if they knew what a real set if ear buds sound like I might have issues, but they understand what is going on.


If I could afford to spend $350+ per setup on ears plus a box of tips, that I only use three or four weeks per year I would as fast as I can, but our budget is allocated for other things that take a higher precedent, and affect more events over the year. And I have an organization that willing lends me equipment, lets say gives back to the community. It is a win win situation as I see it.

Sean...
 

OP hasn't stated which console he's using, but many digital consoles can do limiters per mix without external hardware. If through a headphone amp, set the limiter based on the the worst-case scenario when the headphone amp is cranked to the max.
 
Thanks for all your thoughts, guys! I'll probably just rent P4HWs next time I need IEMs. I'll grab a pair of Sennheiser earbuds for each and let them keep them. The Sennheisers tend to provide 20-30 dB of attenuation, are comfortable and sound pretty good. I own a pair of IE 4s and love them... I never suggested that the musicians would have to provide their own 9 volts. I simply thought I had escaped needing a hefty supply of pricey 9v batteries around the theater. It seems that everyone but Shure has evolved to AAs.
 
OP hasn't stated which console he's using, but many digital consoles can do limiters per mix without external hardware. If through a headphone amp, set the limiter based on the the worst-case scenario when the headphone amp is cranked to the max.

In theory, I agree. In practice, the limiter will likely hit before the user has the volume he wants, and the mixperson will have to fiddle with it all the time.
 

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