RePatch Box Rentals

[rylethorn]

Hi all,

I'm the Master Electrician at a small regional theater in Vermont. A designer that we are bringing in is unsatisfied with the number of dimmers that we have(48 2.4k and 8 1k) and has requested a repatch box that allows him to turn on any combination of 5 lighting instruments, only run on 1 dimmer. He swears that you can rent them. I was wondering if any of you had used them in the past and knew of any companies that still had them available for rental.

Thanks!
J

 

[SteveB]

Usage assumes your circuiting all comes down to portable packs, where you can then install the re-patch switch boxes between the dimmer outputs and the cable for the circuiting.

Typically a set of 20 amp rated switches in a box, plus a few pigtails - one per switch for the output end and an input pigtail that goes to the dimmer. You then switch on/off a switch to get that cable/circuit energized by the dimmer.

- Creative Lighting in Glans Falls NY, is probably the closest place.

- Limelight in Lee, Mass (near Lenox)

- 4Wall, in NJ

- PRG in NJ

- Bestek in Bablyon,, NY (Long Island).

All can probably ship, or have the LD pickup on his/her way up from NY (JK)

 

[soundofsparks]

Hi all,

I'm the Master Electrician at a small regional theater in Vermont. A designer that we are bringing in is unsatisfied with the number of dimmers that we have(48 2.4k and 8 1k) and has requested a repatch box that allows him to turn on any combination of 5 lighting instruments, only run on 1 dimmer. He swears that you can rent them. I was wondering if any of you had used them in the past and knew of any companies that still had them available for rental.

Thanks!
J

It may be more cost effective to rent another 48 x 2.4k rack if you have the power to tie in.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

It may be more cost effective to rent another 48 x 2.4k rack if you have the power to tie in.

You wouldn't need more power to add dimmers for the same load.

 

[Footer]

Limelight would be your best bet. They keep everything. Darmkstar could have it but I doubt it. ACES in Albany might as well. No matter what it's a custom made box.

 

[theatricalmatt]

I have such a thing, but it's a manual -- you would need an ASM to standby to switch between scenes. I recall seeing similar items in the City Theatrical, Doug Fleenor, and Martin catalogs.

Also, "Any combination of 5 lights, running on one dimmer"? I would be careful around that. 5 x 575W will trip every breaker. Even four 575W lamps comes dangerously close to a 20A circuit's capacity.

You could also look to supplement the lighting rig with LEDs, which wouldn't draw as much power.

 

[SteveB]

I have such a thing, but it's a manual -- you would need an ASM to standby to switch between scenes. I recall seeing similar items in the City Theatrical, Doug Fleenor, and Martin catalogs.

Also, "Any combination of 5 lights, running on one dimmer"? I would be careful around that. 5 x 575W will trip every breaker. Even four 575W lamps comes dangerously close to a 20A circuit's capacity.

You could also look to supplement the lighting rig with LEDs, which wouldn't draw as much power.

City Theatrical version:

http://www.citytheatrical.com/Produ...e71ecae2-cd2e-49f8-9565-f6a61de65f48&subDept=

 

[BobHealey]

Assuming you are running fixtures with HPLs and ETC dimmers, what about dimmer doublers? Won't give you 5:1 though.

 

[soundofsparks]

You wouldn't need more power to add dimmers for the same load.

I believe the OP's LD wants to simply have greater capacity for independent control. He wants to use as many as 5 times the current dimmer number. Even if you were to say, okay, let's not use the current dimmers at capacity because we are going camlok another rack off of this one which we won't run at capacity, that's still not going to get him to the number of lights he needs. Another 48 dimmers would nearly double both the control and capacity so when the LD inevitably wants to two-fer things as he hangs what would amount to 300 lights.

I think it's good practice to ensure the dimmers you use could run at full capacity without tripping the company switch.

Also, +1 to the dimmer doubler, but that would only work if you had Sensor racks and only if you bought new lamps to lamp down to 77v, and then you're talking a rental of dimmer doublers that would probably end up costing the same as a second rack.

 

[SteveB]

I believe the OP's LD wants to simply have greater capacity for independent control. .

That was it in a nutshell.

It was very common, back in the day (30-40 years go) to see switch boxes of this type on events where the numbers of dimmers was limited by the control system.

Power is really not an issue as long as it is understood by all that you have potentially a large demand load that may overwhelm the main power system, should somebody inadvertently turn on all the switches at the same time. 40 years ago we learned not to do this and I'm certain it's a skill easily understood and learned today.

That's what the LD is aiming for and it then becomes the LD's responsibility to the large extent, to figure out HOW to manipulate the re-patching of the switches on the boxes to; A) Not over-load the dimmer and B) Get the re-patch accomplished in a "switch while dark" state.

As an electrician, my question would be, given that the likely location of the switch boxes is going to be at the dimmer racks, where the circuit cabling will terminate, WHO is going to manipulate the switches, if the console is located in a location other then next to the dimmers, which might be a possibility in this scenario. Otherwise you need a separate electricians/crew person to throw switches, as well as good communication as to when.

 

[sk8rsdad]

These days it's less expensive to add shoebox dimmers when needed. That gives you 4 independently fused circuits. If you have relays or constant current modules they can be powered from the dimmer rack.

 

[SteveB]

These days it's less expensive to add shoebox dimmers when needed. That gives you 4 independently fused circuits. If you have relays or constant current modules they can be powered from the dimmer rack.

Yup, good idea. Not sure of the rental costs though as you need the relay plus the dimmer pack, VS. a cheap switch box.

 

[Footer]

I think it's good practice to ensure the dimmers you use could run at full capacity without tripping the company switch.

No install does this any more. It used to be common place in installs with 48 or fewer dimmers but as control channels increased it got a bit out of control to do this. You now size the incoming feed to the number of fixtures you want to hang vs how many dimmers you want installed. Touring/Portable systems work the same way.

@STEVETERRY has done a lot of work on this to ensure the code keeps up with how systems are commissioned.
https://www.etcconnect.com/uploadedFiles/Main_Site/Documents/Public/White_Papers/survey_article.pdf
http://www.etcconnect.com/uploadedF...ic/White_Papers/Power_Play_by_Steve_Terry.pdf

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

I think it's good practice to ensure the dimmers you use could run at full capacity without tripping the company switch.

No one has done this since patch panels were common. The diversity of actual load and capacity of dimmers is huge.

 

[soundofsparks]

No install does this any more. It used to be common place in installs with 48 or fewer dimmers but as control channels increased it got a bit out of control to do this. You now size the incoming feed to the number of fixtures you want to hang vs how many dimmers you want installed. Touring/Portable systems work the same way.

@STEVETERRY has done a lot of work on this to ensure the code keeps up with how systems are commissioned.
https://www.etcconnect.com/uploadedFiles/Main_Site/Documents/Public/White_Papers/survey_article.pdf
http://www.etcconnect.com/uploadedF...ic/White_Papers/Power_Play_by_Steve_Terry.pdf

Now THIS is REALLY interesting!

(I hope I didn't abduct this thread, but learning more about NEC is really great...)