Rotating a flown unit on the ground
- Thread starterntrimp91
- Start date
Actually, make that a full 360 degree rotation*** Sorry...
MarshallPope
Well-Known Member
Just to clarify, are you saying that you want a 2-sided wall that flies in, lands, is there for a while, and then rotates to the other side, is there a while, and then goes out?
The best way would probably to use a welded center pipe that goes all the way through the piece that it can turn around.
The easiest way, if it is fits your application, may be to simply hang the wall with three cables, with the center one on a swivel. Land it (Maybe on casters), unclip the outer lift lines, rotate, and reclip.
The best way would probably to use a welded center pipe that goes all the way through the piece that it can turn around.
The easiest way, if it is fits your application, may be to simply hang the wall with three cables, with the center one on a swivel. Land it (Maybe on casters), unclip the outer lift lines, rotate, and reclip.
Yes, it is a two sided wall. The full movement is the wall comes in, rotates 45 degrees so that it is facing down center, and gets locked into place. When the scene is over, it gets unlocked, rotates back to 0 degrees, and flies out. The exact same motion happens again during the last scene of the show, however, the opposite side of the wall is facing the audience, hence why 360 degrees in necessary. This movement needs to happen as quickly as possible, so I don't think unclipping and re-clipping the outer lines is a possibility.
JChenault
Well-Known Member
I'm assuming you have a counterweight system and you intend to use one of the battens.
I see some problems if this is the case. In no particular order:
First Since you want the unit to rotate, all if the weight will have to be carried by the center pivot point. Is the unit going to be too heavy for the batten to handle at a single lift point? At 12x 8 probably not, but you might be getting close.
Secondly what will use for the hardware to swivel at the top? Not sure what I would use for this but it needs to be rated for the load.
Third how will you keep the unit from turning in the air. You need some kind of mechanism to keep it stable. If you have a single pivot point, you will also have an issue with the unit trying to tilt side to side as the center will likely not be the exact center of gravity.
Fourth how will you safety it so that in the event of failure nothing falls down and hurts any one.
Fifth - assuming a counterweight how will you make sure the arbor cannot get away from you. ( this is why I don't like the idea of three cables. I have visions of the arbor trying to fly out when you unclip the end cables)
Finally you will have to solve the issue if the center point of the wall staying center as you turn it. ( a problem if you tried to use just a center cable )
Rennet Gaff's #1 rule of rigging. ( which I plan to steal as it succinctly states the issue ) ask yourself "Would I confidently tell my children go stand on the stage in the middle of an Earthquake?"
IMHO it is possible, but to do it safely requires lots of thought, a bit of engineering, and is likely to be somewhat expensive.
Unless you want the look of the wall flying in a vista, I wold suggest simply building flats with casters and jacks and rolling them on from the wings. Probably quicker than flying in and having a stage hand go out and manipulate the wall.
I see some problems if this is the case. In no particular order:
First Since you want the unit to rotate, all if the weight will have to be carried by the center pivot point. Is the unit going to be too heavy for the batten to handle at a single lift point? At 12x 8 probably not, but you might be getting close.
Secondly what will use for the hardware to swivel at the top? Not sure what I would use for this but it needs to be rated for the load.
Third how will you keep the unit from turning in the air. You need some kind of mechanism to keep it stable. If you have a single pivot point, you will also have an issue with the unit trying to tilt side to side as the center will likely not be the exact center of gravity.
Fourth how will you safety it so that in the event of failure nothing falls down and hurts any one.
Fifth - assuming a counterweight how will you make sure the arbor cannot get away from you. ( this is why I don't like the idea of three cables. I have visions of the arbor trying to fly out when you unclip the end cables)
Finally you will have to solve the issue if the center point of the wall staying center as you turn it. ( a problem if you tried to use just a center cable )
Rennet Gaff's #1 rule of rigging. ( which I plan to steal as it succinctly states the issue ) ask yourself "Would I confidently tell my children go stand on the stage in the middle of an Earthquake?"
IMHO it is possible, but to do it safely requires lots of thought, a bit of engineering, and is likely to be somewhat expensive.
Unless you want the look of the wall flying in a vista, I wold suggest simply building flats with casters and jacks and rolling them on from the wings. Probably quicker than flying in and having a stage hand go out and manipulate the wall.
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BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
I don't know section problems and trim and how important not seeing the mechanism/machinery is but assuming the load - the wall - stays on the batten - should not be too hard to find a way to suspend it from a single point and pivot. I'd probably look at a bridle first and a swivel connector. Google "swivel eye eye" and easy to find ones with very high ratings. You'll need to think about batten attachment and would be simpler if you could hang it under a lift line. A lot of connections that need t o be made and checked by a qualified person. Probably will require two people to pivot and anchor. I'd look at a bungee or some other simple anchor at each corner and leave the load on the batten. That means setting and striking - rehearsed stage hands or actors. Shouldn't be too heavy with conventional (olf fashioned?) flat construction.
I suppose if you built something heavier and two side you could build it around a center pole or pipe that then attaches to the batten - tricky and needing some thought - that you then have the option of rotating it by some sort of line and pulleys from off stage - magic - but if this is a manual counterweight set, you still have to leave the weight on the set. Perhaps axle extends 6" and lands in a bottom pivot?
Rotating it by hand needs to be well rehearsed so whole set does not swing much. Kind of why I like the pole or Robert's roto-draper concept.
Any doors or practical elements in the wall and all bets off.
I suppose if you built something heavier and two side you could build it around a center pole or pipe that then attaches to the batten - tricky and needing some thought - that you then have the option of rotating it by some sort of line and pulleys from off stage - magic - but if this is a manual counterweight set, you still have to leave the weight on the set. Perhaps axle extends 6" and lands in a bottom pivot?
Rotating it by hand needs to be well rehearsed so whole set does not swing much. Kind of why I like the pole or Robert's roto-draper concept.
Any doors or practical elements in the wall and all bets off.
Amiers
Renting to Corporate One Fixture at a Time.
You could also build a wall within a wall. Leaving the outer wall to be stationary and the wall in the wall to rotate on a center swivel. You just have to make sure the inner wall gets locked in when flying back out as to not rotate midair and knock into other battens.
I do agree with John though, double sided wall wagons are much easier and not as complicated.
I do agree with John though, double sided wall wagons are much easier and not as complicated.
Also, keep in mind any cable that you put on a swivel needs to be rated to be on a swivel, not all cables are... and the stuff that is costs a lot more.
To do this, I would build a hanger that drops down from the batten out of steel. The wall would also be steel and connect to a center pivot. Locking pins on each side, probably solenoids or something of that sort, would keep the wall in place when it was lined up with the batten. You would want limit switches to ensure the thing locked before it was flown.
No matter what, your looking at 3 points of contact. No way of getting around that. So, it is either going to be expensive like my way or low tech like Bill's way. My way is faster, Bill's is slower. Its up to you.
BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
My suggestions were indeed low tech since I sensed cost might be an issue and I thought low tech was probably what someone who had to ask how was looking for.
What about building a frame for the wall to rotate in? Will let you connect the piece to the batten in multiple places and eliminate the need to get hardware rated to swivel under load? Would need some sort of docking system that it could sit in so that the wall would rotate versus pushing the entire piece around.
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