Rough Service--Incandescent Ban Loophole
- Thread starterderekleffew
- Start date
hobbsies
Active Member
Rough service. What I joke. looks like this company and soon many others are going to see a lot of business from theatres.
I understand the need for using less power but I mean CFLs suck to look at and both LEDs and CFLs aren't very dimmable, and on top of that, aren't very "historic looking" for shows that take place any time in the last 100 years.
I understand the need for using less power but I mean CFLs suck to look at and both LEDs and CFLs aren't very dimmable, and on top of that, aren't very "historic looking" for shows that take place any time in the last 100 years.
techieman33
Well-Known Member
BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
JD
Well-Known Member
I think the CFL world will soon be a historic note. No point to them, all the bad, none of the good. 2700k LEDs have come a long way, and other than the bottom of the dimmer curve, they look pretty good. Incandescent still wins out on warm-shift and low end curve, but I don't see a future for the CFL. All the bad traits wrapped up in one! No low end, fragile, green rot-light color, EPA hazard when broken. can't fit a lamp mounted globe on them...
RickR
Well-Known Member
FYI
- Rough service lamps are made by most major manufacturers. You can get them at local hardware stores. Specialty websites are silly.
- The feds are watching the sale of rough service products. It's in the law that if they get used as replacements then they too will be banned. (Excuse me "subject to efficiency standards." Nothing is banned.)
- Halogen replacement A lamps are more cost effective (unless the fixture vibrates) and dim as well as standard incandescent. Most halogens meet 2014 standards!
- If you aren't dimming or lighting Art, then quality CFLs are a good choice. Bottom end junk is still junk.
- LEDs are getting better so fast that if you have any doubts wait a few months. A lamp replacements went from $40 to $15 and got better in other ways in about a year.
- The price of lamps is minor compared to the electricity. When a $1 100W lamp runs for 800 hours it uses 80 KWH that costs $8-$12 depending. Spending that much on a 1/5 power, 10x life lamp is a good deal.
Companies like AeroTech with 20,000 hour lamp life lamps are producing incandescent lamps that are not not discontinued, also most normal Name brand makers of lamps make "other than" standard bulb as it were lamps that are long life' (less than the above) and or versions such as the "Reveal" lamp that won't go away either.
Dependant on the fixture there is also halogen versions of the lamp that won't go away either that you could upgrade to. A-Lamp strip light for instance... as long as wired in a modern way.. there is an Osram 100w lamp that's great for it.
After that, there is in place state wide rebate and money back programs for switching to more energy efficient lamps that can get you savings for what you do. There is at least decent quality LED and CFL lamps out there that will be fine to replace your lighting and get this rebate from the power company. Most will get the rebate but don't ask me what is quality yet in buying some but not knowing anything about anything.
Next say five years is going to be a coming to age in learning process perhaps in CFL perfecting itself as best it can, and the LED getting cheaper and better. I know I buy Philips #423491 11A19/END/2700 Dim 6/1 White LED A-19 Lamp for the shop General Manager's use on request, but that's the one requested and there might be many brands of similar specifications. And wait a few months and Cree or some other brand will have something better. Not impressed with the Cree I currently have up in my own house if dimmer less than full in use. Urr flicker? Tried many CFL's in the bedroom w/o dimmer.. the warm up curve sucks.
Ever so much try one thing and try another between CRI, Luminous output, warm up for real light etc. Wait five years and ask what is going to work out.
But at least Shop Management (Government) did something. Yes there will be adaption problems, but it does kind of force doing so rather than putting it off. This will be done now in figurig out. That's a good thing.
Dependant on the fixture there is also halogen versions of the lamp that won't go away either that you could upgrade to. A-Lamp strip light for instance... as long as wired in a modern way.. there is an Osram 100w lamp that's great for it.
After that, there is in place state wide rebate and money back programs for switching to more energy efficient lamps that can get you savings for what you do. There is at least decent quality LED and CFL lamps out there that will be fine to replace your lighting and get this rebate from the power company. Most will get the rebate but don't ask me what is quality yet in buying some but not knowing anything about anything.
Next say five years is going to be a coming to age in learning process perhaps in CFL perfecting itself as best it can, and the LED getting cheaper and better. I know I buy Philips #423491 11A19/END/2700 Dim 6/1 White LED A-19 Lamp for the shop General Manager's use on request, but that's the one requested and there might be many brands of similar specifications. And wait a few months and Cree or some other brand will have something better. Not impressed with the Cree I currently have up in my own house if dimmer less than full in use. Urr flicker? Tried many CFL's in the bedroom w/o dimmer.. the warm up curve sucks.
Ever so much try one thing and try another between CRI, Luminous output, warm up for real light etc. Wait five years and ask what is going to work out.
But at least Shop Management (Government) did something. Yes there will be adaption problems, but it does kind of force doing so rather than putting it off. This will be done now in figurig out. That's a good thing.
One observation about CFLs that nobody appears concerned about is there use on stairs, particularly the home. You come out of a bedroom in the middle of the night, fumble for the light switch to go down stairs. The light comes on but it is dim due to its warm up time and you stumble down the stairs in the half light.
RickR
Well-Known Member
In commercial spaces stairs are supposed be lit all the time. Most states are allowing a minimal light level that gets boosted when an occupancy sensor triggers.
Homes are a whole different deal. I hope you replace the lamp before you break a leg.
Homes are a whole different deal. I hope you replace the lamp before you break a leg.
BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
Ditto. Takes mine a second or a second and a half and I haven't gotten to my feet yet, let alone near the stairs. Except porch lights which, when near zero degrees out, have the best five minute fade I've ever seen fluorescent do.
WooferHound
Well-Known Member
BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
Have you considered these? [url]http://www.tcpi.com/spec-sheets/ELITE/Designer-Elite/Designer-Elite-DIM-PAR-Series_print.pdf [/URL] Probaly the 17 watt 3k and maybe 25 degree? Best dimming of any mains dimming LED I've seen but still not all the way to out - but close. Depends on your facility and the events.
JD
Well-Known Member
Can vouch for what Bill said! Have a ton of the LED17P38D27KFL (2700k, 40 degree spread) and they have a real good curve. Google around for prices, they are all over the place. Depending on distance, the 25 degree spread may be better for you.
Again back to Aerotech and other brands of extra long life for incandescent sources in a little or no less output, or halogen sources that you should down grad in wattage due to extra heat but same output. And for a stairwel beyond incandescent sources, there is lots of CFL's that will go up to full intensity when turned on, believe in that warm up curve we are mostly talking about a CFL - A-19 lamp direct replacement not something with tubes expose and the A-19 shape.
This big change... more what one sees on the news than anything important in proper use of your lamps in already being behind the times of what is the best lamps to be using anyway. No in your local small hardwareo or grocery store, your choices will be limited, but in home centers and thru your lamp suppliers there will still be options - lots of them.
If you have some strip light from say 1928 thats' using 120v A-Lamps of probaby the PS-25 size, or later got socket extenders for the A-19 size, than a complete re-wiring of the fixture is already due and halogen 100W lamps will work fine now once the fixture is safe to use. If you have a lobby using an A-Lamp or something similar.... CFL, LED or there is very long life choices for incandescent or halogen available. Really not much of a problem - it isn't other than going long life and something different in startup costs perhaps (see above rebates). Your lamp supplier should be able to find answers direct to your problem or as the question direct to your situation to this website and I'm sure we could come up with options.
This whole discontinued problem I don't view as a problem if you are other than 40+ years out of your time in choosing what lamps you want to light with, instead of following what is traditional. Yea, with CFL and LED there is details, but the incandescent long life lamp isn't going away, just the one that you have to climb the ladder on to change too much going away. Better options in learning one's lamps well before forced to do so.
This big change... more what one sees on the news than anything important in proper use of your lamps in already being behind the times of what is the best lamps to be using anyway. No in your local small hardwareo or grocery store, your choices will be limited, but in home centers and thru your lamp suppliers there will still be options - lots of them.
If you have some strip light from say 1928 thats' using 120v A-Lamps of probaby the PS-25 size, or later got socket extenders for the A-19 size, than a complete re-wiring of the fixture is already due and halogen 100W lamps will work fine now once the fixture is safe to use. If you have a lobby using an A-Lamp or something similar.... CFL, LED or there is very long life choices for incandescent or halogen available. Really not much of a problem - it isn't other than going long life and something different in startup costs perhaps (see above rebates). Your lamp supplier should be able to find answers direct to your problem or as the question direct to your situation to this website and I'm sure we could come up with options.
This whole discontinued problem I don't view as a problem if you are other than 40+ years out of your time in choosing what lamps you want to light with, instead of following what is traditional. Yea, with CFL and LED there is details, but the incandescent long life lamp isn't going away, just the one that you have to climb the ladder on to change too much going away. Better options in learning one's lamps well before forced to do so.
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