Running DMX and Power to Electrics

[Ech725]

Alright, I’m finally joining the 21st century and will be getting some LED lights. What are some options of running DMX and Power to the electrics?

Pardon my ignorance, but there must be a better option than running a ton of DMX cable and extension cables up to grid and down to electrics.

Current setup is a analog strand dimmers to converter to Ion.

 

[Amiers]

Well you have a few options.

You could swap out whatever dimmer is next to the LED with a relay card in your dimmer and if you are lucky you can daisy chain power between the fixtures and wireless DMX transmitter and just cable between the fixtures. This would be your ideal solution depending on fixtures.

Now if the fixture doesn’t have a power pass through then you could have relay cards at each fixture and dmx wireless as above.

You could also swag a line from the grid and plop a Edison pack in the middle of the electric that is center to th fixtures and cable accordingly.

It comes down to Money and what fixtures you have.

 

[RonHebbard]

Well you have a few options.

You could swap out whatever dimmer is next to the LED with a relay card in your dimmer and if you are lucky you can daisy chain power between the fixtures and wireless DMX transmitter and just cable between the fixtures. This would be your ideal solution depending on fixtures.

Now if the fixture doesn’t have a power pass through then you could have relay cards at each fixture and dmx wireless as above.

You could also swag a line from the grid and plop a Edison pack in the middle of the electric that is center to th fixtures and cable accordingly.

It comes down to Money and what fixtures you have.

@Amiers You were suggesting an Edison air-gap relay pack, correct, not an Edison SCR, TRIAC or IGBT dimmer pack, right?
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

 

[Ech725]

Well you have a few options.

You could swap out whatever dimmer is next to the LED with a relay card in your dimmer and if you are lucky you can daisy chain power between the fixtures and wireless DMX transmitter and just cable between the fixtures. This would be your ideal solution depending on fixtures.

Now if the fixture doesn’t have a power pass through then you could have relay cards at each fixture and dmx wireless as above.

You could also swag a line from the grid and plop a Edison pack in the middle of the electric that is center to th fixtures and cable accordingly.

It comes down to Money and what fixtures you have.

I have been checking out Etc’s wireless colorsource. What do mean by relay card? Do you mean I can make a close dimmer a non dim on my analog dimmer rack?

 

[Amiers]

I guess I could of been more specific.

This would be king of the crop.

http://www.fullcompass.com/prod/215408-Juice-Goose-PD1A

Edit: Depends on your dimmer if Non Dim means true 120v power. That is a question for you manual. Generally not recommended.

 

[RonHebbard]

I have been checking out Etc’s wireless colorsource. What do mean by relay card? Do you mean I can make a close dimmer a non dim on my analog dimmer rack?

@Ech725 @Amiers That's EXACTLY what he means. You would need to swap the dimmer module for an "air gap" (Makes an audible mechanical click when it actuates) card NOT to be confused with an SCR, TRIAC or IGBT dimmer card parked at 100%.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

 

[Amiers]

I’m not familiar with the color source relay. That would be a @STEVETERRY question.

 

[JohnD]

Current setup is a analog strand dimmers to converter to Ion.

You might think I am being silly or just very nit-picky but with systems it is better to describe from the IN to the OUT. So your system goes from the ION to a [DMX>analog] converter to the Strand dimmers. Same way with adapter cables, many (most) LED lights come with an adapter power cable, usually Edison to IEC on cheaper lights or Powercon or True1. The cheaper LED lights sometimes come with 3 pin DMX only so you might need 5 pin to 3 pin adapters. What is funny is some companies that sell adapters get it wrong and list a 5 pin male to 3 pin female adapter as a 3 to 5 adapter.
Depending on what Strand dimmers you have you might be able to get replacement modules that are relays for constant power.
Another important point is you need an easy way to remove power from the runs to LED fixtures. In some homebrew solutions a standard breaker box is used for cable runs to the fixtures. There are two issues with this, the household type breaker boxes have breakers which have to be derated to 80% and the breakers are not made to be used as switches. The options from companies which make lighting gear will use 100% rated breakers which are switch rated.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

The ColorSource relay is a stand alone portable device. DMX in an out, power in and out, with a relay in the power. DMX in can be wired or it can be wireless, in which case you need a ColorSource transmitter, which might be best way to get DMX to electric.

Your best option is indeed replace a module in dimmer rack - one or two for each electric - with a constant or (air gap) relay module. Slightly more work but not necessarily more expensive, intercept the circuit and feed from a circuit breaker panel with or without relays.

You'll want a relay somewhere to make it easy to depower the LED fixtures.

Or you can run an extension cord or two to batten along with DMX.

I've never liked cable reels with many circuits but for one or two, may not be bad. And you can get cable reels for data cable.

 

[derekleffew]

Alright, I’m finally joining the 21st century and will be getting some LED lights. What are some options of running DMX and Power to the electrics?

Pardon my ignorance, but there must be a better option than running a ton of DMX cable and extension cables up to grid and down to electrics.

Current setup is a analog strand dimmers to converter to Ion.

Sometimes running power and data from the grid following the same path as the borderlight cable IS the better option. Please post a picture of your "analog strand dimmers." Because of their age, it's unlikely that there's a non-dim/air-gap relay module available that you can just swap in. You'd need to hire an electrician to move select circuits from the dimmer rack and relocate them to a circuit breaker or relay panel. Then use wireless DMX for control.

 

[epimetheus]

I guess I could of been more specific.

This would be king of the crop.

http://www.fullcompass.com/prod/215408-Juice-Goose-PD1A

Edit: Depends on your dimmer if Non Dim means true 120v power. That is a question for you manual. Generally not recommended.

First, calling that the "king of the crop" is awfully subjective. I've seen a lot better power distribution devices than that.

Second, I had to laugh at the product description on this. "The Juice Goose PD Series is a quick, economical and convenient resource for multiple circuit power distribution. It is far less expensive than homemade options." Far less expensive? It's $357!!!

The OP's problem could be solved with a quad box (properly listed of course) on an extension cable from the grid (or from a pick point in the wings).

 

[Ech725]

Sometimes running power and data from the grid following the same path as the borderlight cable IS the better option. Please post a picture of your "analog strand dimmers." Because of their age, it's unlikely that there's a non-dim/air-gap relay module available that you can just swap in. You'd need to hire an electrician to move select circuits from the dimmer rack and relocate them to a circuit breaker or relay panel. Then use wireless DMX for control.

It's an old Strand Century CCR 600 "telephone" style patch panel. There are 4 Non Dims. I popped off the panel to see what was behind. It appears they are mercury relays. Would there be any long term effects plugging in LEDs to a circuit and patching in to the Non Dim mercury relays or has anyone had success plugging an LED to a non dim in this fashion?

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

Those should be fine. No different than a switch. Just be sure to keep it straight not not let anyone repatch these.

Those and wireless DMX would make this easy.

 

[EdSavoie]

Am I crazy for having an inherent distrust for wireless DMX? If I can't trust my phone to stay connected to a wireless AP right next to me, why should I trust an embedded device to do the same, on the same frequency band?

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

Maybe or maybe not. I've only included it in projects twice. Once still fine years later, once some problems because of a totally un-managed IT department - a school with home style equipment managed by no one.

 

[Daniel Yannantuono]

Alright, I’m finally joining the 21st century and will be getting some LED lights. What are some options of running DMX and Power to the electrics?

Pardon my ignorance, but there must be a better option than running a ton of DMX cable and extension cables up to grid and down to electrics.

Current setup is a analog strand dimmers to converter to Ion.

I'd plan a dimmer rack upgrade in the next couple of years to give you more options at the "rack" and you could run cabling at your leisure. When doing an upgrade you should start (in my opinion) from the rack out. A solid infrastructure an controller reduce the amount of Gremlins you may encounter.

 

[icewolf08]

Since you have an Ion, I would suggest that you invest in some networking hardware and a few gateways. This way instead of making hardwire DMX runs all over the place, you can run Cat5/6 from the desk to a switch on the grid and then drop Cat5/6 to the electrics ass needed. Much cheaper cable. You can use ETC Net3 gateways or almost any sACN E1.31 compliant gateway (like those from our friends at Pathway Connectivity). You could also do ArtNet if you wanted to. Personally, I would stay away from wireless DMX unless there is just no other solution, it just adds one more possible point of failure with no good way to troubleshoot.

As for power, it looks like most folks have you covered in that department.

 

[JD]

Am I crazy for having an inherent distrust for wireless DMX? If I can't trust my phone to stay connected to a wireless AP right next to me, why should I trust an embedded device to do the same, on the same frequency band?

Not crazy at all. Wireless devices are still progressing in numbers while the airspace given to fit the signals gets tighter. So far, the results are good for wireless DMX. I still feel better using hardwired devices whenever practical. You get the same looks of blame whether you screw up a cue, or the system screws up a cue. If I'm going to get those looks, at least it should be my fault.

 

[Ech725]

Since you have an Ion, I would suggest that you invest in some networking hardware and a few gateways. This way instead of making hardwire DMX runs all over the place, you can run Cat5/6 from the desk to a switch on the grid and then drop Cat5/6 to the electrics ass needed. Much cheaper cable. You can use ETC Net3 gateways or almost any sACN E1.31 compliant gateway (like those from our friends at Pathway Connectivity). You could also do ArtNet if you wanted to. Personally, I would stay away from wireless DMX unless there is just no other solution, it just adds one more possible point of failure with no good way to troubleshoot.

As for power, it looks like most folks have you covered in that department.

Ok so let me see if I got this correct. My options are:

Ion board to a long dmx cable to an opto splitter (I guess this can be near the board or near the electrics) and branching out the electrics and into the LED lights.

Ion board to dmx cable to colorsource transmitter to colorsource receiver on electrics to LED lights via dmx cable. Would an opto splitter be needed or advantageous if going the dmx route?

Ion board to ETC net3 gateway to led lights. How exactly doe the gateway connect to the led lights via cat5/6?

Appreciate the info. Lighting has not fallen under my purview for a very long time.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

First fine.

Second, probably no option splitter if you have a receiver on each electric and 16 or fewer lights.

The ion is network to gateway. Gateway to fixtures is DMX - which might use category cable but only as DMX, not network.

If I missed it, I'm sorry, but you need a plan based on a reasonable idea of how many devices requiring DMX and a noting of how many channels of DMX each will require. That's the only way to make a good guess at best way to distribute data. But if you go first route - DMX from board to lights with splitters as needed - you will have invested a minimal amount and much reuseable if you later step it up.