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safety cable or not

Discussion in 'Question of the Day' started by ship, Dec 4, 2007.

  1. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Name four ways this safety cable is not so safe or at least standard to the industry.
     

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  2. Marius

    Marius Active Member

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    Uh, looks ok to me. Are the swages not crimped properly?
     
  3. soundlight

    soundlight Well-Known Member

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    1) It's rusted
    2) no thimbles
    3) Loop around the biner is to small
    4) Looks like there's a crack in the right nicopress, but I could be wrong.

    That's all I've got right now, some of those could be wrong...
     
  4. Grog12

    Grog12 CBMod CB Mods Premium Member

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    5) Its only crimped on each nico twice not 3 times
    6) There's no slack pass the crimp

    As an added bonus when's a saftey the most useful?
     
  5. PadawanGeek

    PadawanGeek Active Member

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    When the bolt comes loose =O
     
  6. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

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    Well, from the photo, I can't tell if it is rust or gold paint. Either way, it probably isn't the best for a safety. I have never met a safety that has thimbles in the loops, but that would certainly be a good thing to have. Without knowing what gauge wire it is and what material the swaging sleeves are, I can't speculate on how many swages should be in each sleeve. The fact that the loop on the left is starting to kink is probably not so great, and the loop on the right probably should be bigger.
     
  7. gafftapegreenia

    gafftapegreenia CBMod CB Mods

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    I think that:

    1) Left loop is kinking
    2) Right loop could be bigger
    3) There is none of the "dead" end sticking out of the nicopress.
    4) The gold or rust
     
  8. avkid

    avkid Not a New User Fight Leukemia

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    That's funny, because all the mass produced ones for sale are flush cut.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  9. Footer

    Footer Senior Team Senior Team Premium Member

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    The dead end should be flush, not sticking out. If it sticks out they usually stab you. Also, the reasoning behind the extra sticking out just does not hold up, that being if it starts slipping it will not pull out because that extra bit will hold. In reality, it is just going to continue failing.
     
  10. gafftapegreenia

    gafftapegreenia CBMod CB Mods

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    Ok, then how about this - the crimps on the safeties in the picture are different from the pics ship posted.
     
  11. avkid

    avkid Not a New User Fight Leukemia

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    I won't dignify that with a response.
     
  12. gafftapegreenia

    gafftapegreenia CBMod CB Mods

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    What?!? I'm trying to figure this out here. The nicopress in ship's photo have two crimps, the nicopress in your second photo have three crimps, and the nicopress in the first photo you posted don't seem to have crimps. I saw that same photo on a google image search. I don't know what the proper name for that style is, but it's not "crimped" it's like, pressed down the middle.
     

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    Last edited: Dec 4, 2007
  13. avkid

    avkid Not a New User Fight Leukemia

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    I thought you were just arguing with me.
    (mistaken identity, I thought you were someone else for a second)
    There are different types of sleeves.
    That round one looks more like a stop than a sleeve though.
    http://www.usrigging.com/sleeves.html
     
  14. gafftapegreenia

    gafftapegreenia CBMod CB Mods

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    Ah, no harm them. So that's what those things are called.
     
  15. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Got one out of four things I note. Thimbles are not standard practice for biners but a really good idea and one that will come in time to the industry as standard. Not rusted, painted gold but not one of the noted points.
     
  16. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    That is two of four main points. Perhaps when not needed?
     
  17. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Also correct in all ways. 1/8" wire rope if it helps.
     
  18. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Tje dead end is properly terminated but a good thing to look for. Don't want it sticking out more than at most 1/16" or it will snag/sliver people. It's paint and fine. The rest, correct
     
  19. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Yep, we all have chips on our shoulders - often best to think twice.

    There is three types of nicopress oval sleeve mostly used. First is home owner / home center grade aluminum - one should never use one in our industrybut very dangerous. Problems with stress cracks and stuff like that that are hard to detect in use. My photo on the Left shows one, possibly the second photo shown later also has them. Next is either copper or zinc coated copper oval sleeves which are proper to use. Zinc coated copper while cheaper is more difficult to use if untrained to tell the difference between it in shinyness and dull aluminum.

    These in general are proper to use as long as either professionally produced - that liability paperwork thing of who you bought them from responsible if they fail, or if home made these as with all Nicopress crimps need to be tested with the Go/No-Go gauge provided with each crimp tool. Test the first one and after like 20x of them every time you use the tool. If your crimp does not pass this test, send it back for re-calibration. Manual says every year the crimp tool is to be re-calibrated but most don't use the tools enough. Testing the crimps each time they are done is more the reasonable goal. Re-Calibration by either factory authorized service center or the factory is required. My own bench tool is in for this currently.

    Manuals on crimping these Nicopress sleeves (Swag Tool, National Telephone #64-CGMP, Wire Rope Crimp Tool 1/16" to 3/16" Oval) normally used do normally say three crimps per sleeve at 1/8". I have read in some places however a two crimp per sleeve statement thus some confusion in the industry.

    This two crimp safety cable has been produced by some company unknown for resale and they are all over the market, (constantly show up in even my inventory though not painted gold.) Normally they don't have such a tight crimp around the snap hook also. Keep an eye out for them - two crimps is not what most manuals specify or what is general practice.

    The third crimp type which is often factory best is a single piece crimp. Someone with a tool that does one crimp along the entire length of the crimp sleeve. Good stuff, not much chance of a tool out of adjustment. Such crimp sleeves are absolute perminant and proper.

    So first we have an aluminum sleeve on the left end of the safety cable, second we have two crimps on the right end and also the wire rope too tight around the snap hook. Common mistake for an amature would be to make such a thing tight in not recognizing minimum bending radiai of wire rope. Fourth we have the results of minimum bending of wire rope. This wire rope is deformed due to folding/bending and also no longer safe.

    In the future and most Euro safety cables have thimbles of either the smaller 'AN' style or normal size thimble. Normally the AN size which are minimal size in bending radiai for a wire rope of this size. They also have better snap hooks used than ours. - but not perfect ones yet. This is what will come as given a safety cable 1/8" galvanized 7x19 wire rope has a minimum bending radiai, is it really safe to use something under shock load that would break if bent too sharply? This granted that such safety cables that have thimbles will no longer fit thru a 1/2" hole on most fixtures such as the S-4 Safety cable ring. That's a re-design problem for them in compliance with what will hopefully at some point become a new standard. In fact, the QOTD safety cable that shows the damaged sharply bent loop is no doubt from bending to fit into 1/2" holes. Once the wire rope is no longer round in how it lays, it is trash.

    For now in addition to these details of inspection, one also wants to inspect the snap hook itself. IF it don't close properly or gets hung up, one can oil it but after that if it does not test correctly by itself, that safety cable is also trash.

    Points I was attempting to point out with the safety cable presented were as follows:

    Two crimps on the right
    Too tight around the snap hook
    Damaged loop on the left end
    Aluminum Oval Sleeve
     
  20. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Urr... some rigger was not paying attention. Really hard to do such a thing - this cable had quite a bit of weight on it, this is 3/8" wire rope steel used for supporting truss. Note the crimp type and the thimbles also.

    None the less, just as this knot makes for a really un-safe rig, a deformed safety cable also is not safe to use.
     

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