Small Removable Revolve

[musoke]

I know there is a ton of information on this forum about building revolves but even after reading all of it I still have some questions. I need to build a 4' revolve that nests inside of a 6' x 8' by 3' high stationary platform. It is rotated by actors pushing and pulling on two chairs fastened to the revolve.

There are two problems:
The revolve needs to be lifted out of the surrounding platform during one scene
We cannot screw into the stage

I was thinking of using Van's draft for the revolve but instead of mounting the pivot point and the "spokes" to the stage I would mount them to a circular platform underneath the revolve. To keep the underlying platform from slipping I was thinking of putting grip tape on the legs, but that doesn't seem very secure. I am still figuring out a way to fasten the chairs that is not a tripping hazard when they are not attached to the platform, a way to keep the revolve from spinning when not in use, and the fastest way to remove the revolve.

Thoughts?

 

[MPowers]

..........I need to build a 4' revolve that nests inside of a 6' x 8' by 3' high stationary platform. It is rotated by actors pushing and pulling on two chairs fastened to the revolve.........The revolve needs to be lifted out of the surrounding platform during one scene.......To keep the underlying platform from slipping I was thinking of putting grip tape on the legs, but that doesn't seem very secure. I am still figuring out a way to fasten the chairs that is not a tripping hazard when they are not attached to the platform, a way to keep the revolve from spinning when not in use, and the fastest way to remove the revolve.....

Lots of questions here before we can offer advice.

WHY does the revolve have to be lifted out? Dialogue driven? director wish? TD solution to a problem not mentioned yet?
Au Vista during a scene, au vista between scenes, or blackout or closed curtain?
By actors or crew?
what is the time frame for the removal?
How far does it have to move?
Does the action need to be reversed during the show?
Budget?
Build time?
building Crew skill level?
Shop equipment - Welding, wood, steel?

 

[musoke]

The revolve has to get lifted out due to a director wish during a scene by actors. They have about a minute to lift it out of the platform (which is center-stage) and off-stage (note that this is a very small performance space). I would like to use 6 actors to do this, 3 for the revolve and 3 for the platform it sits on top of but that's assuming I build the revolve that way. It will need to be replaced later in the show within the same time frame. I would like to build this it for under $300 because our overall budget is $500. Our build crew has basic carpentry experience so no steel.

 

[erosing]

The revolve has to get lifted out due to a director wish during a scene by actors.

What is the director trying to accomplish, what's the design intention, what's the perceived effect?

 

[venuetech]

loose pin hinge the chairs onto the turntable
make the 6 x 8 x 3 a wagon with a turntable on top.

the director wants a 4' x 3' deep hole in the floor? the surrounding platform goes or stays? I am just trying to imagine just what the director needs.
is the revolve restored after this scene?

 

[musoke]

What is the director trying to accomplish, what's the design intention, what's the perceived effect?

I am still trying to get the director to answer these questions, though I think the last two are more for the designer. I will post his and her answers once I get a reply to my email sometime tomorrow.

Loose pin hinge the a chair to the turntable? I think that might be too cumbersome, the chairs do not live on the turntable, they only come on for one scene then get struck. And I've seen what a lot of force can do to loose pin hinges, the knuckle starts to unbend and the pins fall out. Unless there's a more sturdy kind of hinge I'm unaware of I don't think that will work but thanks for the suggestion.

I would love to simply mount the revolve to the top of the 6 x 8 platform but the design calls for the revolve to sit inside of and flush with the top of the platform. The 6 x 8 platform is a rectangle with a circular cutout to fit the revolve. This surrounding platform never moves. And the revolve is restored in a later scene.

 

[MPowers]

One of the methods of building a revolve is the inverted caster method. This might work to your advantage, depending on what happens in and about the "hole" while the revolve is removed. With this method you could use one of several types of "frameless" revolve techniques and the actors would only have to lift a 4' circle of deck and not the casters and the weight of a frame.

Inverted caster means the caster is mounted to the deck, wheel up and remains stationary. The revolve top then rides on the wheels. Because the revolve is relitively light without the weight of the wheels and frame, It takes less force t make it move.

A frameless deck/platform/revolve usually, but not always, means a stress skin. For a 4' diameter revolve, take two circles of A/C or better plywood (They must be flat, no warp or bow) one circle of 1" blue foam and glue them together with full surface, water based, contact cement and you will be susprised at just how strong the deck will be.

To lock it in place, one way would be to cut two 1/2" deep x 2" wide notches in the edge of the circle cutout of the platform lid on oposited sides of the hole. Mount a 1/2" x 2"x6" piece of ply in the notch, flush with the top of the platform. Hinge it so that pushing or pulling the lower end of the ply will push it against the revolve edge (or away depending on which way you push.) acting as a brake. The push/pull could be by rope, wire rope, broom handle, computer activated pneumatic cylinder......wait, forget that last one.

As for the chairs, the attachment to the chair leg will be your weakest point. What works best will depend on the chairs and how sturdy they are and what the action is. One way would be to drill a hole into the bottom of the leg, (if it has a threaded hole for a glide, use that) and fasten a metal plate to any two legs, diagonal across being the sturdiest. The plate should stick out about 1/2". Drill a 1/4" hole in the plate and a matching hole in the revolve lid. Drop a 1" long 1/4" FH bolt into the hole and the chair is held in place for push and pull but can be lifted straight up to move.

There are many other ways of doing this but I hope this gives you some ideas. Questions??? Just ask.

 

[Van]

I know there is a ton of information on this forum about building revolves but even after reading all of it I still have some questions. I need to build a 4' revolve that nests inside of a 6' x 8' by 3' high stationary platform. It is rotated by actors pushing and pulling on two chairs fastened to the revolve.

There are two problems:
The revolve needs to be lifted out of the surrounding platform during one scene
We cannot screw into the stage

I was thinking of using Van's draft for the revolve but instead of mounting the pivot point and the "spokes" to the stage I would mount them to a circular platform underneath the revolve. To keep the underlying platform from slipping I was thinking of putting grip tape on the legs, but that doesn't seem very secure. I am still figuring out a way to fasten the chairs that is not a tripping hazard when they are not attached to the platform, a way to keep the revolve from spinning when not in use, and the fastest way to remove the revolve.

Thoughts?

The original plan for theat revolve was a "no screw" set up. the entire thing was secure to itself with loose-pin hinges and hook-and-eye set ups. The wheels are mounted to the 1x's specifically so you don't have to screw into the floor. If you feel you need a more positive connection I guess you could use some heavy duty fabric dbl-stick tape to hold the Radii pieces down. If you simply run 1x between each spoke there really shouldn't be any chance of the radii boards rolling though. If you use two pieces of pipe sleeved over each other the 'Lifting out" really won't be a problem, especially if you mean a 4' diameter revolve. That'll be a one person job. You could easilly have another "top" cut out but with legs pre-attached to it, that you could slip in the hole once the revolve top is pulled.

 

[musoke]

Okay, so I understand all of your post except I'm kind of iffy about the braking method you described. I understood what you were getting at until you mentioned hinges. Wouldn't the flaps resting in the notches have to slide out to close the gap and stop the revolve or am I completely missing the idea?

Though I still face the problem that the director wishes the circle cutout in the 6 x 8 x 3' deep platform to be completely empty for a scene. As I mentioned before, the only solution I could think of for this would be to build an underlying circular platform to mount the casters and pivot point. But that would be a pain in the ass to remove. By the way, how did you figure out you could make a stress skin just with ply and blue foam, that's brilliant!

 

[Van]

Ply-foam-ply stress skins have been used in the construction industry for years as insulated roofing panels.

 

[MPowers]

Okay, so I understand all of your post except I'm kind of iffy about the braking method you described. I understood what you were getting at until you mentioned hinges. Wouldn't the flaps resting in the notches have to slide out to close the gap and stop the revolve or am I completely missing the idea?

Though I still face the problem that the director wishes the circle cutout in the 6 x 8 x 3' deep platform to be completely empty for a scene. As I mentioned before, the only solution I could think of for this would be to build an underlying circular platform to mount the casters and pivot point. But that would be a pain in the ass to remove. By the way, how did you figure out you could make a stress skin just with ply and blue foam, that's brilliant!

First, the brake and hinge. picture a strap hinge on the underside of the platform lid, pointing away from the revolve. The other half or the hinge hangs straight down with the "flap" of 1/2" ply attached. About 1" of the plywood piece is above the hinge pin pivot point and 5" below. Pull on the bottom end of the hinge and you have a 5:1 lever action for your brake. To retract the brake use a highly technical device called a rubber band or small spring or a 1/4" bungee. I can send you a CAD or PDF if my description is still unclear.

If the director wants a bare empty hole, your idea of a double platform is really the best. Build the actual revolve and brake mechanism as a second platform below the real deck. The part that gets removed is as described earlier except use a 4" or 6" thick piece of foam, the actual revolve never gets removed. Build 3 or 4 slightly raised "Knobs" say 1/4" to 1/2" on the lower revolve and mating divots in the bottom of the removed piece to keep it in place. If the director is looking for a 3' deep hole, 4' in diameter, he is not being realistic. However a small compromise is available. Build the top section that gets removed as described. Build the revolve that stays behind as a doughnut with a 3' hole, or a ring 6" wide and an ID of 3'-0". This would give a 3' deep hole for an actor to climb in and out of, if that is what is desired.

As for the foam platform, I stole it from someone who stole it from another guy, who borrowed it from....... anyway, I first came across the technique in a 1964 production of "KISMET" where 4 dancing harem girls floated on, dancing and carrying the Vizier's throne platform, 6' diameter and 12" high. As his "Throne" was actually a pile of highly decorated pillows, the top was only 3/8" ply and there was no bottom. There was no edge or facing either, and over the 8 shows a week, 4 week run, there was some "crunching" of the edge if actors stepped on or very close to the edge. The facing was a multilayered scalloped skirt with gold fringe so any foam damage was totally hidden and with the soft side, never showed.

Hope this helps

 

[musoke]

Yes this helps immensely. I think I now understand what you were talking about with the brake but a CAD file would help. Though I think you and are and thinking differently about the underlying circular platform. I was just going to have a basic platform that I could mount the casters and pivot pt on and then but the actual revolve on top of it. Is your idea to mount the deck on top of the actual revolve and then use something like a jig to keep it in place? I could then just remove the platform, nice. Though why do you recommend using a thicker piece of foam for the actual revolve if I go this route? Also, where do I find blue foam that thick? Hopefully the director is satisfied with this solution. But if he isn't I'll use the doughnut idea.

Haha, I read about that in the "Weirdest Piece" thread, that's awesome.

 

[lwinters630]

A 4' revolve seem to be very small. so if the total load on that size is maybe 600lbs, then perhaps building the top 4' circle with structural components to "bridge" the hole, like a lid on a trap door, except round. Use the ply/foam/ply that Mpowers suggested or other structural methods,then below the plywood revolve, inside the pit, build a circular Knee wall 3" or so wide around the outside of the pit. Attach fixed 4 inch casters facing up every 16". Mount 4 casters horizontal around the perimeter attached to the outer hole to keep the revolved centered.

All the casters remain and the "lid" is the only thing that needs to be removed leaving the open pit.

A dead bolt sliding lock could be made of a 2x4, uni-strut, or other materials that would push into a key slot on the under side of the revolve.

Just a different way to look at the problem.