Small theatre sound help

[MrPham]

New to small theatre production and I have a few questions. During our show,we need background music , we have singers and sometimes instruments playing. I was thinking the best way would to have different sets of speakers for each sound. For example background tracks coming from one set of speakers , then vocals from the singer coming from another set and then the mic'd up instruments coming from the last set of speakers. Would that be the correct way ? Right now we are runing 2 QSC K12'a with 2 QSC subs, x32 compact mixing board. To me when everything is going on at once all the sound , sounds jumbled coming out just those speakers. The background music may be to loud and drowns out the instruments and vocals.

If thats not the correct way what would you guys suggest? Thank you.

 

[jkowtko]

I would say that is the correct way. Having different sources coming out of different speaker locations to me is disorienting and detracts from the performance. If your sound is jumbled then I would work on the mixing and potential use of delays. With a small theater you will get a lot of direct sound from the sources, so it can sometimes be difficult to work with.

I would suggest start with all volumes low, then up the vocals until they sound comfortable in the theater.

Then bring up the music tracks to match level but a bit below the vocals.

The band may be the biggest issue since they can generate a lot of sound directly. If they are 100% electronic (i.e. no local instrument monitors, all musicians on headphones, and the outputs piped directly to your board) then you can treat them like the music tracks. However in the 99% chance they have direct output then your issue with the band may not be sound reinforcement as much as sound containment.

 

[MrPham]

Thank you for your tips.

What if the all the speakers were in the same location?

 

[robartsd]

Thank you for your tips.

What if the all the speakers were in the same location?

Playing different sounds through different speakers located close to each other is not going to solve your "jumbled sound" problem - at best it would be a waste of equipment - more likely it would actually make the problem worse. You're much more likely to improve the situation by looking at accustical treatments for the space than by adding unneeded speakers.

How do the individual sources sound in the space by themselves? Is the system well tuned to the space? Is the room very "live" (lots of reflected sound)?

 

[jkowtko]

Locating speakers very close to each other is usually results in some form of phase interference which creates dropout frequencies, i.e. as you walk slowly from one side of the theater to the other you will hear the sound change as you walk.

I've seen a lot of center clusters created by hanging two or three regular speakers next to each other with sides touching so they create an arc. This is really a big no-no since most speakers have a 90-100 degree horizontal dispersion and the angle of their side panels only orients them maybe 45 degrees apart -- so you get 45 degrees of interference. There are "horizontal array" speakers that are made for this, designed with a very narrow horizontal dispersion ... but none of the regular full-range speakers out there are this type.

That's not to say you will always have problems with this arrangement -- it all depends on how the speakers happend to be designed and the exact position you end up placing them in. But I will tell you, my only attempt at creating a center cluster resulted in me pulling out the extra speakers to arrive at only one hanging in the center.

I had much better success with three speakers -- Left, Center, and Right, with the center being a fill and the L and R playing stereo when the source contained it. In fact in many cases you can reduce your overall volume levels by adding fills, which may sound more pleasing to the ear. Go to a broadway show and look at the speakers surrounding the proscenium, or look up the Meyer Constellation system, and you'll get the general idea.

 

[Senorfish]

Your equipment is excellent... QSC K12 speakers, can't really beat them. Sub is nice though very little is needed in a small space. X32 console... has all the control you need.

Your problem sounds like a very simple lack of mixing ability and finess. You need to pay close attention to the volume levels you are setting for your different sources. Yes it is very typical for background music to drown out live vocals and instruments. Solution? Turn down the background music when there are live vocals and instruments!

Also turn the sub level down A LOT in general... like to just barely be there doing anything. Most of your sound sources probably don't have much sub frequency anyway. If that thing is cranked up, your just putting a bunch of high energy low frequency rumble out into a small space where it has nowhere to go and dissipate. Turn it down. Also roll off the low end on mic channels. A sub is only needed for dance music and certain sound effects like thunder, or to reinforce a bass instrument or kick drum in a medium to larger size venue!

Make sure the K12's are set to "Ext Sub" so that they cut their own low end. Do you have a cross over to make sure the right frequencies are going to the mains VS the sub? You can program a crossover into the X32 although it's a fairly complicated and maybe beyond your current handle on the board.

Your issue really sounds like you just need to focus on setting proper levels of your 'mix', and making slight changes (usually lowering something that is covering up something else you want to hear in that moment).

As you get more advanced you can start using compressors to assist with controlling some volume levels, and EQ to cut out problematic frequencies that are overpowering the room. But that all comes after you're able to actually set good 'balanced' volume levels between your various sound sources. Certainly adding more speakers will make your problem much worse. You can actually do everything you need with those 2 QSC K12's (less really is better).

 

[WooferHound]

The most important thing to get clear sound is speaker placement. Point the speakers directly at the ears of the audience, do not point them overhead.
The second most important thing is proper EQ so things sound clear and natural. It's hard to explain equalization on a forum, but in live situations reducing frequencies around 250hz will clear things up considerably.